7 ms·

Can You Overdose on Happiness?

43 points by dnetesn 9y ago

Pica_soO 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Directly stimulating the brain with electrical current seems like it might be different
jeffreyrogers 9y ago
I think there's a big difference between being happy and being satisfied. There's some evidence that certain people are just happier than others, in the same way that the distribution of extroversion, intelligence, etc. vary across society. There's things you can do to remove unhappiness, but I think in most cases that's all you're doing, bringing people to their baseline if everything else is taken care of. In any case, it seems like we should be more focused on helping people find meaning in their lives rather than making people happier. People are happier when doing fun things, but these things don't lead to any lasting achievement that people can look back on and view as giving their life a purpose.
- ForRealsies 9y ago
  It's 2018, on an article dealing with happiness/fulfillment and no one dropped a Peterson video yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdu6iN0CM3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdu6iN0CM3s
- supernovae 9y ago
  I find the opposite true - when people seek out meaning they're often miserable :) I know i have one life to live, so i choose to experience and see what I can and that brings me much happiness - but in a way, it's not all from happiness. There is lots of suffering and sacrifice. I love hiking mountains but its no walk in the park and requires lots of willpower to keep climbing when everything is telling you to turn around. Making it to the top the first time is an accomplishment but further summits are more about the experience, beauty, and wonder of being alive and being able to explore this planet by foot. Not looking for answers as if there is a purpose, but experiencing life with purpose - to see it and live it. To me, thats vastly different than purpose through meaning.
  - jeffreyrogers 9y ago
    I think we're trying to get at the same thing but describing it in different ways. I don't mean that people should be looking for the meaning of life. But you should be doing things that you find meaningful. That can be climbing high mountains, raising a kid, running a business that employs other people, etc. I don't think it matters very much what it is, but you should have something you're directing your efforts towards rather than just aimlessly seeking experience that make you feel happy.
  - tj-teej 9y ago
    "I love hiking mountains but its no walk in the park" Not to be pedantic, but... :)
nikivi 9y ago
I recently wrote a piece on what happiness means to me and how I try to maintain it: https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/life/happiness.html https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/life/happiness.html Maybe some will find it helpful.
- athenot 9y ago
  This is a good piece, thanks! But some of this becomes a lot more complicated when you have children.
- trevyn 9y ago
  I think you’re on the right track, but I’d like to point out that while physical pain may (or may not) be inevitable at times, suffering and regret are actually completely optional mental states generated by the interpretation of your experience. You get tantalyzingly close to this with your discussion of Stoic philosophy; consider what would be possible if you were also able to intentionally choose your interpretation of reality, and thus which emotions to feel. It is possible.
psyc 9y ago
Hedonic bliss is very different from, say, extremely motivated high-optimism. The latter can easily get you hospitalized and medicated for mania. People around you will not accept it unless you have a lot of charisma and status to back it up (like Gary Vaynerchuk or Richard Simmons). The former will probably make you an unmotivated shut in, like a junkie with an endless supply.
ShabbosGoy 9y ago
> A few years earlier, the doctors had implanted electrodes in a central part of his reward system—namely, the nucleus accumbens. The stimulation had worked rather well on his symptoms, but now it was time to change the stimulator battery. Wait a minute. It seems rather strange that upregulation of dopamine would be defined as happiness. I think of happiness as cross-activation between your endocannabinoid system and endogenous opioid system.
finnh 9y ago
So interesting. "wirehead" addiction is an interesting plot point in "The Ringworld Engineers", but I didn't realize it was so well understood & implementable.
ponderatul 9y ago
Just what we needed, more human interventionism. I mean, I get what she's trying to do, but we don't know the second order effects. But given human nature, we can predict to some extent what's going to happen. Another behavioural addiction, another conglomerate of corporations preying on human's with a weak locus of control, and lots of profits.

43 points by dnetesn 9y ago

Pica_soO 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

emodendroket 9y ago
Directly stimulating the brain with electrical current seems like it might be different

jeffreyrogers 9y ago

I think there's a big difference between being happy and being satisfied. There's some evidence that certain people are just happier than others, in the same way that the distribution of extroversion, intelligence, etc. vary across society. There's things you can do to remove unhappiness, but I think in most cases that's all you're doing, bringing people to their baseline if everything else is taken care of. In any case, it seems like we should be more focused on helping people find meaning in their lives rather than making people happier. People are happier when doing fun things, but these things don't lead to any lasting achievement that people can look back on and view as giving their life a purpose.

ForRealsies 9y ago
It's 2018, on an article dealing with happiness/fulfillment and no one dropped a Peterson video yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdu6iN0CM3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdu6iN0CM3s
supernovae 9y ago
I find the opposite true - when people seek out meaning they're often miserable :) I know i have one life to live, so i choose to experience and see what I can and that brings me much happiness - but in a way, it's not all from happiness. There is lots of suffering and sacrifice. I love hiking mountains but its no walk in the park and requires lots of willpower to keep climbing when everything is telling you to turn around. Making it to the top the first time is an accomplishment but further summits are more about the experience, beauty, and wonder of being alive and being able to explore this planet by foot. Not looking for answers as if there is a purpose, but experiencing life with purpose - to see it and live it. To me, thats vastly different than purpose through meaning.
- jeffreyrogers 9y ago
  I think we're trying to get at the same thing but describing it in different ways. I don't mean that people should be looking for the meaning of life. But you should be doing things that you find meaningful. That can be climbing high mountains, raising a kid, running a business that employs other people, etc. I don't think it matters very much what it is, but you should have something you're directing your efforts towards rather than just aimlessly seeking experience that make you feel happy.
- tj-teej 9y ago
  "I love hiking mountains but its no walk in the park" Not to be pedantic, but... :)

nikivi 9y ago

I recently wrote a piece on what happiness means to me and how I try to maintain it: https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/life/happiness.html https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/life/happiness.html Maybe some will find it helpful.

athenot 9y ago
This is a good piece, thanks! But some of this becomes a lot more complicated when you have children.
trevyn 9y ago
I think you’re on the right track, but I’d like to point out that while physical pain may (or may not) be inevitable at times, suffering and regret are actually completely optional mental states generated by the interpretation of your experience. You get tantalyzingly close to this with your discussion of Stoic philosophy; consider what would be possible if you were also able to intentionally choose your interpretation of reality, and thus which emotions to feel. It is possible.

psyc 9y ago

Hedonic bliss is very different from, say, extremely motivated high-optimism. The latter can easily get you hospitalized and medicated for mania. People around you will not accept it unless you have a lot of charisma and status to back it up (like Gary Vaynerchuk or Richard Simmons). The former will probably make you an unmotivated shut in, like a junkie with an endless supply.

ShabbosGoy 9y ago

> A few years earlier, the doctors had implanted electrodes in a central part of his reward system—namely, the nucleus accumbens. The stimulation had worked rather well on his symptoms, but now it was time to change the stimulator battery. Wait a minute. It seems rather strange that upregulation of dopamine would be defined as happiness. I think of happiness as cross-activation between your endocannabinoid system and endogenous opioid system.

finnh 9y ago

So interesting. "wirehead" addiction is an interesting plot point in "The Ringworld Engineers", but I didn't realize it was so well understood & implementable.

ponderatul 9y ago

Just what we needed, more human interventionism. I mean, I get what she's trying to do, but we don't know the second order effects. But given human nature, we can predict to some extent what's going to happen. Another behavioural addiction, another conglomerate of corporations preying on human's with a weak locus of control, and lots of profits.