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Do I need a ledger? Do I need to other people to trust what I write on the ledger? Do I need to trust what other people write on the ledger? Is it possible to t

Do I need a ledger? Do I need to other people to trust what I write on the ledger? Do I need to trust what other people write on the ledger? Is it possible to trust what is written on the ledger in relation to what I actually care about? I haven't heard any convincing yes answers to all of these questions outside of financial instruments.

mirimir 8y ago
For decentralized payment systems, it's obviously essential. But there is no general answer. It depends on the circumstances.
- rtpg 8y ago
  Cash is a decentralized payment system for most intents. So the question becomes: Do I need a digital decentralized payment system? Does one need them? One fairly strong legitimate use case is people who are consistently shunned by credit card networks. Lots of people working in adult industries, weed (in states where it's legal), certain high risk spaces... though _even then_ it's not about decentralization, just abut needing some form of competition (debit card network?) Meanwhile there are real costs to the decentralized networks
  - mirimir 8y ago
    You don't need a digital decentralized payment system for cash. At least, if cash transactions are all in person. But once you start mailing cash around, and having agents transport cash, a decentralized distributed-trust leger might be useful.
    - rtpg 8y ago
      Yes, that's a good point. If you have a certain number of trust points you could use a decentralized ledger to effectively build a banking system where you still get cash out of it. Suffice to say that this would likely be very against a bunch of KYC money laundering laws, but it's a decent trick
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Such as hawala. I have no clue how it manages trust.
  - mateuszf 8y ago
    > Cash is a decentralized payment system for most intents. So the question becomes: Do I need a digital decentralized payment system? Does one need them? Cash is not decentralized. Governments can print as much as they want.
    - rtpg 8y ago
      It's decentralized for most purposes. It would be very hard for the gov't to revoke any transaction, or to blacklist money you have (except in very specific cases where the stars align and they can list serial numbers to block). The fact that gov't can print money has roughly the same effect as speculation has on cryptocurrencies
SuoDuanDao 8y ago
The bulk of what any country's civil service does is keep trustworthy records. Court documents, property records, tax receipts... all require a civil service being paid well enough that accepting a bribe is a bad value proposition. I find it telling that places where the government is bullish on cryptocurrencies (Venezuela, Moscow) have reputations as places with high amounts of graft.

mirimir 8y ago

For decentralized payment systems, it's obviously essential. But there is no general answer. It depends on the circumstances.

rtpg 8y ago
Cash is a decentralized payment system for most intents. So the question becomes: Do I need a digital decentralized payment system? Does one need them? One fairly strong legitimate use case is people who are consistently shunned by credit card networks. Lots of people working in adult industries, weed (in states where it's legal), certain high risk spaces... though _even then_ it's not about decentralization, just abut needing some form of competition (debit card network?) Meanwhile there are real costs to the decentralized networks
- mirimir 8y ago
  You don't need a digital decentralized payment system for cash. At least, if cash transactions are all in person. But once you start mailing cash around, and having agents transport cash, a decentralized distributed-trust leger might be useful.
  - rtpg 8y ago
    Yes, that's a good point. If you have a certain number of trust points you could use a decentralized ledger to effectively build a banking system where you still get cash out of it. Suffice to say that this would likely be very against a bunch of KYC money laundering laws, but it's a decent trick
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Such as hawala. I have no clue how it manages trust.
- mateuszf 8y ago
  > Cash is a decentralized payment system for most intents. So the question becomes: Do I need a digital decentralized payment system? Does one need them? Cash is not decentralized. Governments can print as much as they want.
  - rtpg 8y ago
    It's decentralized for most purposes. It would be very hard for the gov't to revoke any transaction, or to blacklist money you have (except in very specific cases where the stars align and they can list serial numbers to block). The fact that gov't can print money has roughly the same effect as speculation has on cryptocurrencies

SuoDuanDao 8y ago

The bulk of what any country's civil service does is keep trustworthy records. Court documents, property records, tax receipts... all require a civil service being paid well enough that accepting a bribe is a bad value proposition. I find it telling that places where the government is bullish on cryptocurrencies (Venezuela, Moscow) have reputations as places with high amounts of graft.