5 ms·

A single person working at bank can flip a switch and take my money. A developer can't do that with my Bitcoin.

by stale2002 9y ago

lern_too_spel 9y ago
The government can ban anybody from converting those bitcoins into something useful. The value of your digital baubles is now zero.
- stale2002 9y ago
  And then I transfer that to a different country and convert it their. You don't need 1 government to do this. You need EVERY government to do this. This is useful, in the sense that someone in venezuela is at serious risk of the government taking their money if it is in a bank, but they really couldn't do that to their Bitcoin. Yes, if it is the US government doing the banning, you are significantly less likely to get around the ban. But the world is not US centric. There are many governments would try to oppress their population by using the power of the banks, but would be significantly less effective against crypto transactions. People are using crypto right NOW to get around many currency control laws implemented by governments. So they are successful getting around financial censorship that is already happening.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    So now you have currency in another country. As long as your country doesn't allow you to repatriate, you still have nothing. It's the same as holding US dollars in a US bank while living in another country that regulates getting the money out (except worse because fewer people will accept BTC vs. USD). As long as you cannot spend it, it is worthless.
- mythrwy 9y ago
  They are still spendable. Or sellable to private party.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Who will accept them if they cannot be converted back to usable currency?
    - mythrwy 9y ago
      If they are spendable they are usable currency. Perhaps of more limited use though to your point.
Nursie 9y ago
When was the last time this happened? Was the bank uninsured or unregulated? What did the police think of the matter?
- lmm 9y ago
  It's a particularly bad week to make that argument - many TSB customers have no access to their money right now as we speak. (No doubt in the fullness of time those people will be repaid, a regulatory investigation will occur, and a scapegoat will be found, but that's cold comfort to those people right now).
  - acdha 9y ago
    That seems to make the argument stronger: TSB customers will get full compensation and there will be legal penalties for the incompetent management. That seems a lot better than “everything is irreversibly gone” failure mode of Bitcoin which hopes that the victims will successfully track down and sue the culprits, as seen in the many failures so far. It also sounds completely unlike the naive framing above alleging that bank employees are able to take your money
    - lmm 9y ago
      > That seems to make the argument stronger: TSB customers will get full compensation and there will be legal penalties for the incompetent management. Customers will get "full compensation" of what was in their accounts, eventually but their consequential losses for not having money in the meantime are unlikely to be covered. > That seems a lot better than “everything is irreversibly gone” failure mode of Bitcoin which hopes that the victims will successfully track down and sue the culprits, as seen in the many failures so far. I don't really disagree, but bitcoin does give you more control over your own destiny. If you're smart and hardworking enough to store your own bitcoin securely, you can do so, and no-one can take it away from you. > It also sounds completely unlike the naive framing above alleging that bank employees are able to take your money That was those customers' experience - someone at the bank pressed a button, and now they can't exchange their money for goods and services. Eventually the wheels of law will grind away the bank and return those people's money, but that doesn't necessarily help them right now.

A single person working at bank can flip a switch and take my money. A developer can't do that with my Bitcoin.

The government can ban anybody from converting those bitcoins into something useful. The value of your digital baubles is now zero.

stale2002 9y ago
And then I transfer that to a different country and convert it their. You don't need 1 government to do this. You need EVERY government to do this. This is useful, in the sense that someone in venezuela is at serious risk of the government taking their money if it is in a bank, but they really couldn't do that to their Bitcoin. Yes, if it is the US government doing the banning, you are significantly less likely to get around the ban. But the world is not US centric. There are many governments would try to oppress their population by using the power of the banks, but would be significantly less effective against crypto transactions. People are using crypto right NOW to get around many currency control laws implemented by governments. So they are successful getting around financial censorship that is already happening.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  So now you have currency in another country. As long as your country doesn't allow you to repatriate, you still have nothing. It's the same as holding US dollars in a US bank while living in another country that regulates getting the money out (except worse because fewer people will accept BTC vs. USD). As long as you cannot spend it, it is worthless.
mythrwy 9y ago
They are still spendable. Or sellable to private party.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Who will accept them if they cannot be converted back to usable currency?
  - mythrwy 9y ago
    If they are spendable they are usable currency. Perhaps of more limited use though to your point.

Nursie 9y ago

When was the last time this happened? Was the bank uninsured or unregulated? What did the police think of the matter?

lmm 9y ago
It's a particularly bad week to make that argument - many TSB customers have no access to their money right now as we speak. (No doubt in the fullness of time those people will be repaid, a regulatory investigation will occur, and a scapegoat will be found, but that's cold comfort to those people right now).
- acdha 9y ago
  That seems to make the argument stronger: TSB customers will get full compensation and there will be legal penalties for the incompetent management. That seems a lot better than “everything is irreversibly gone” failure mode of Bitcoin which hopes that the victims will successfully track down and sue the culprits, as seen in the many failures so far. It also sounds completely unlike the naive framing above alleging that bank employees are able to take your money
  - lmm 9y ago
    > That seems to make the argument stronger: TSB customers will get full compensation and there will be legal penalties for the incompetent management. Customers will get "full compensation" of what was in their accounts, eventually but their consequential losses for not having money in the meantime are unlikely to be covered. > That seems a lot better than “everything is irreversibly gone” failure mode of Bitcoin which hopes that the victims will successfully track down and sue the culprits, as seen in the many failures so far. I don't really disagree, but bitcoin does give you more control over your own destiny. If you're smart and hardworking enough to store your own bitcoin securely, you can do so, and no-one can take it away from you. > It also sounds completely unlike the naive framing above alleging that bank employees are able to take your money That was those customers' experience - someone at the bank pressed a button, and now they can't exchange their money for goods and services. Eventually the wheels of law will grind away the bank and return those people's money, but that doesn't necessarily help them right now.