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That explains the behavior of all the drivers as I cycle to work. They are all moral philosophers and believe that by killing me they provide donor organs to sa

That explains the behavior of all the drivers as I cycle to work. They are all moral philosophers and believe that by killing me they provide donor organs to save 6 others. Maybe I need a cycling top that says "I don't carry a donor card"

rdouble 16y ago
This version of the "trolley" thought experiment is explored in the book I mentioned in a previous post. It turns out people will not choose to steer a trolley of people needing organ replacements into a healthy potential organ donor. Thus, most people really aren't utilitarians, even if they claim to be. Unfortunately, one of the chemical processes in the brain reverses this attitude when someone prone to road rage spies a cyclist. A typical response is that these sorts of mental games are silly, but how people answer these questions actually forms the basis of legal systems throughout the world.
- iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
  We used to use the "would you kill a jogger for his organs" question on smug medical student applicants - those who wanted to be doctors "to help people". Another good question is ask them why they don't become civil engineers - good drains save a lot more people than doctors ever did.
Tyr42 16y ago
I remember watching a documentary where they found that drivers are much more likely to cut off cyclists wearing helmets than those without helmets. They also measured things like average distance between car and bike when passing. If people see you not wearing a helmet they assume that you are unsafe and will stay further away from you.
- btilly 16y ago
  A friend of mine got access to the traffic accident statistics for Connecticut for several years. He found that it was safer to use smack than to ride a bike. If I remember correctly he also found that in the event of a reported accident, a bicyclist had a 15% chance of a "life-altering event". (For instance you might live, but never walk normally again.) After that he gave up biking and switched to tennis.
- iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
  The research was conducted by a prof at my old school. He also discovered that drivers gave a female cyclist much more space - although since he did the experiment himself in a blonde wig he did consider that perhaps they just give unconvincing transvestites more room !
  - Tyr42 16y ago
    Yes, that is the one I was talking about! Thank you. I'm glad somebody knows what I'm talking about.
logicalmind 16y ago
No offense, I was a successful bmx racer for a number of years so I used to be a hardcore bicyclist, but I really have a problem with bicyclists riding on roads on which they have no ability to maintain the posted speed limit. I experience this nearly every day on a road I drive to/from work. This is a four-lane highway with a posted speed limit of 45mph. It is a favorite of bicyclists for some reason so there are a lot of riders on the road, even during rush hour. There are a handful of stoplights on this road over about a 5 mile stretch. I have yet to see an bicyclist able to maintain a speed of 45mph nor do I see them have the ability to accelerate away from a stoplight with the same ability as an automobile. This leads to many traffic issues and numerous dangerous situations. The issue is only barely related to the bicyclists. It is mostly related to their abilities relative to other motorists. A car/motorcycle that was driving on the same road with the same acceleration and speed capabilities would be a nearly equivalent danger. While I would never endanger a cyclist, I have seen many drivers put in danger by the habits of cyclists. And in my personal opinion, there should be a law that states that a cyclist should only be able to ride on roads for which they can maintain the proper speed.
- iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
  When I'm not cycling I have a Subaru WRX, and yet on the road I'm held up by all these people in SUVs,minivans and pickup trucks that can't do 0-60 in <5secs like I can. Same on sidewalks - I'm jogging along and the sidewalk is crowded with old people that can't maintain a 50min 10K time, they should get out of my way.
  - logicalmind 16y ago
    Ironically, there is a law against accelerating too fast. It's usually called illegal "display of acceleration". BTW, I have a Subura WRX STI (2006).
    - iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
      The reason I bike to work is that in the traffic here I can do the trip in 20mins vs >1hour in a car. The bike computer says I averaged just over 30km/h ,max 70km/h (there's a big hill!) I even beat the neighbors Porsche on the bike - I don't have the STI and the WRX is detuned in this market so it can't beat the Porshce on it's own!

rdouble 16y ago

This version of the "trolley" thought experiment is explored in the book I mentioned in a previous post. It turns out people will not choose to steer a trolley of people needing organ replacements into a healthy potential organ donor. Thus, most people really aren't utilitarians, even if they claim to be. Unfortunately, one of the chemical processes in the brain reverses this attitude when someone prone to road rage spies a cyclist. A typical response is that these sorts of mental games are silly, but how people answer these questions actually forms the basis of legal systems throughout the world.

iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
We used to use the "would you kill a jogger for his organs" question on smug medical student applicants - those who wanted to be doctors "to help people". Another good question is ask them why they don't become civil engineers - good drains save a lot more people than doctors ever did.

Tyr42 16y ago

I remember watching a documentary where they found that drivers are much more likely to cut off cyclists wearing helmets than those without helmets. They also measured things like average distance between car and bike when passing. If people see you not wearing a helmet they assume that you are unsafe and will stay further away from you.

btilly 16y ago
A friend of mine got access to the traffic accident statistics for Connecticut for several years. He found that it was safer to use smack than to ride a bike. If I remember correctly he also found that in the event of a reported accident, a bicyclist had a 15% chance of a "life-altering event". (For instance you might live, but never walk normally again.) After that he gave up biking and switched to tennis.
iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
The research was conducted by a prof at my old school. He also discovered that drivers gave a female cyclist much more space - although since he did the experiment himself in a blonde wig he did consider that perhaps they just give unconvincing transvestites more room !
- Tyr42 16y ago
  Yes, that is the one I was talking about! Thank you. I'm glad somebody knows what I'm talking about.

logicalmind 16y ago

No offense, I was a successful bmx racer for a number of years so I used to be a hardcore bicyclist, but I really have a problem with bicyclists riding on roads on which they have no ability to maintain the posted speed limit. I experience this nearly every day on a road I drive to/from work. This is a four-lane highway with a posted speed limit of 45mph. It is a favorite of bicyclists for some reason so there are a lot of riders on the road, even during rush hour. There are a handful of stoplights on this road over about a 5 mile stretch. I have yet to see an bicyclist able to maintain a speed of 45mph nor do I see them have the ability to accelerate away from a stoplight with the same ability as an automobile. This leads to many traffic issues and numerous dangerous situations. The issue is only barely related to the bicyclists. It is mostly related to their abilities relative to other motorists. A car/motorcycle that was driving on the same road with the same acceleration and speed capabilities would be a nearly equivalent danger. While I would never endanger a cyclist, I have seen many drivers put in danger by the habits of cyclists. And in my personal opinion, there should be a law that states that a cyclist should only be able to ride on roads for which they can maintain the proper speed.

iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
When I'm not cycling I have a Subaru WRX, and yet on the road I'm held up by all these people in SUVs,minivans and pickup trucks that can't do 0-60 in <5secs like I can. Same on sidewalks - I'm jogging along and the sidewalk is crowded with old people that can't maintain a 50min 10K time, they should get out of my way.
- logicalmind 16y ago
  Ironically, there is a law against accelerating too fast. It's usually called illegal "display of acceleration". BTW, I have a Subura WRX STI (2006).
  - iuyhgtfvgbhjn 16y ago
    The reason I bike to work is that in the traffic here I can do the trip in 20mins vs >1hour in a car. The bike computer says I averaged just over 30km/h ,max 70km/h (there's a big hill!) I even beat the neighbors Porsche on the bike - I don't have the STI and the WRX is detuned in this market so it can't beat the Porshce on it's own!