4 ms·

I hope people aren't upvoting this study because it fits a certain narrative in their head - because the study explicitly states that it is not able, or looking

I hope people aren't upvoting this study because it fits a certain narrative in their head - because the study explicitly states that it is not able, or looking, to determine a causal relationship between grip strength and marriage.

reversecs 8y ago
I am wondering what is the narrative you are preemptively countering and why is it important to disrupt that narrative?
- tomlock 8y ago
  The reason I'm posing this broadly is that there are a broad range of evolutionary psychology, incel, and PUA beliefs that subscribe to the view that a stronger partner is one that is deterministically more attractive to women. This paper doesn't support those views. I can't think of many other reasons why this article would be upvoted. It focuses on a vanishingly small population of a certain age range in one part of the world. The conclusion I'm coming up with is that men born between 1923 and 1948 in Tromso, Norway who are married are more likely to have a higher grip strength than unmarried men.
  - Arbalest 8y ago
    Good point, it makes me think any causal effect could easily be in the reverse direction, that married men are more likely required to exercise. This observation does not explicitly assess pre-marriage fitness. It does not do a before and after marriage on a cohort.
  - lambdaphagy 8y ago
    How many generalizations about human behavior whatsoever do you think are "deterministically" true? How many as robust statistical tendencies?
    - tomlock 8y ago
      This paper doesn't claim to make generalizations about human behavior in either case. Why do you feel my view on that dichotomy is important in relation to this paper?
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > The reason I'm posing this broadly is that there are a broad range of evolutionary psychology, incel, and PUA beliefs that subscribe to the view that a stronger partner is one that is deterministically more attractive to women. But shouldn't, from the PUA, etc., viewpoint, that lead to lower rates of marriage, since more desirable men should have less need to offer commitment to secure sex?
    - tomlock 8y ago
      That only holds if desirable men prefer to not be married. Also, being married doesn't prevent a man from having sex outside of marriage.
Pica_soO 8y ago
Who cares about any narrative- we are all just rocket-fuuels burned in the great hedonistic western rocket engine- for progress and the delusion of happiness. Narratives are for those who have to calm the fuels sloshing around in the tanks - and yes, there is no real alternative to this. There is no need to protect any narrative- just point at japan, which does not take on new rocket fuel and thus will crash and burn. From a individuals perspective ignoring the narrative- the social contraption you build and protect is a monstrosity. I m sure it makes perfect sense, if you want humanity to go somewhere, before everything falls apart due to resource starvation and long term environment damage.
InfiniteBeing 8y ago
It seems like your head is filled with narratives of reality denial just because some groups of people who you dislike for whatever reasons have beliefs supported by this study.
- tomlock 8y ago
  What beliefs do you think are supported by this study?

reversecs 8y ago

I am wondering what is the narrative you are preemptively countering and why is it important to disrupt that narrative?

tomlock 8y ago
The reason I'm posing this broadly is that there are a broad range of evolutionary psychology, incel, and PUA beliefs that subscribe to the view that a stronger partner is one that is deterministically more attractive to women. This paper doesn't support those views. I can't think of many other reasons why this article would be upvoted. It focuses on a vanishingly small population of a certain age range in one part of the world. The conclusion I'm coming up with is that men born between 1923 and 1948 in Tromso, Norway who are married are more likely to have a higher grip strength than unmarried men.
- Arbalest 8y ago
  Good point, it makes me think any causal effect could easily be in the reverse direction, that married men are more likely required to exercise. This observation does not explicitly assess pre-marriage fitness. It does not do a before and after marriage on a cohort.
- lambdaphagy 8y ago
  How many generalizations about human behavior whatsoever do you think are "deterministically" true? How many as robust statistical tendencies?
  - tomlock 8y ago
    This paper doesn't claim to make generalizations about human behavior in either case. Why do you feel my view on that dichotomy is important in relation to this paper?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > The reason I'm posing this broadly is that there are a broad range of evolutionary psychology, incel, and PUA beliefs that subscribe to the view that a stronger partner is one that is deterministically more attractive to women. But shouldn't, from the PUA, etc., viewpoint, that lead to lower rates of marriage, since more desirable men should have less need to offer commitment to secure sex?
  - tomlock 8y ago
    That only holds if desirable men prefer to not be married. Also, being married doesn't prevent a man from having sex outside of marriage.

Pica_soO 8y ago

Who cares about any narrative- we are all just rocket-fuuels burned in the great hedonistic western rocket engine- for progress and the delusion of happiness. Narratives are for those who have to calm the fuels sloshing around in the tanks - and yes, there is no real alternative to this. There is no need to protect any narrative- just point at japan, which does not take on new rocket fuel and thus will crash and burn. From a individuals perspective ignoring the narrative- the social contraption you build and protect is a monstrosity. I m sure it makes perfect sense, if you want humanity to go somewhere, before everything falls apart due to resource starvation and long term environment damage.

InfiniteBeing 8y ago

It seems like your head is filled with narratives of reality denial just because some groups of people who you dislike for whatever reasons have beliefs supported by this study.

tomlock 8y ago
What beliefs do you think are supported by this study?