10 ms·

Maybe something about being neutral on the internet.

userbinator 9y ago
Net neutrality started disappearing long before it was even called "net neutrality" --- a lot of residential ISPs won't even let others send packets to the full 64K port range of TCP/UDP to the IP it gives you, blocking some of them for "security reasons", throttling/cutting off certain protocols like BitTorrent, censoring "malicious" sites, etc. If we want true Internet connections we're going to have to fight a lot harder...
- timmytim 9y ago
  I would guess it has something to do with cisco asking them to help alleviate issues with their 1.1.1.1 squatting on a bunch of devices. I tested it when it came out, and if I set my DNS to 1.1.1.1, then logged into a hotel wireless network (that I knew was running those devices), as soon as a request was made, I was logged out of the captive portal. I would have expected 1.1.1.1 to already be blocked if anyone filters on bogon-space (or has dealt with i Is there a database of who blocks what? I searched but didn't find a collection anywhere. Unless we are looking at port 25 and whatnot. Yes, it is not allowing you to use a (not technically)-arbitrary port, but most would agree that the internet is better off for that.
  - colechristensen 9y ago
    1/8 hasn't been "bogus" since 1/2010. ( http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.xhtml http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-addr... ) Using unallocated IPs for "internal" or bogus purposes is sketchy, continuing to use them after they are allocated is something else. Especially so nearly a decade on.
    - notdonspaulding 9y ago
      The wheels of technological change in the Telecom space turn very, VERY slowly. Not upgrading equipment and configs for 10 years is nothing in the ISP world.
      - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        You'd be scarily surprised just how much telecommunications runs on Perl5 ranging around the ~150GB level. I had my stint at an ISP that worked with around 40 state level and national orgs. I saw the underbelly of how things work, and its frankly scary.
        gpvos 9y ago
        Nothing wrong with Perl5 though.
        crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        There is when much of the code was "write once, read never". There's more than a a few dozen MB blobs of dense perl5 code that we had no clue what it actually did, and was told not to touch it, lest many things break. I had to end up touching one of them, because of things breaking with that subsystem and the new ticketing system that was being implemented. It had the wonderful line database_user = root database_password = [current mysql root password] Lest to say, I no longer work there.
        TeMPOraL 9y ago
        Every time I write some crap code at work, someone on HN tells a story about such horrors that I no longer feel bad. Thanks for making my day better :).
  - technion 9y ago
    The most referred to bogon list is Team Cymru: https://www.team-cymru.com/bogon-reference.html https://www.team-cymru.com/bogon-reference.html This team provide a great side service - you can setup BGP with them using an internal AS. It's one of the few ways you can get practical experience setting up BGP in the home with a third party. I'm running it right now.
  - nailer 9y ago
    For anyone else wondering: > A bogon prefix is a route that should never appear in the Internet routing table. A packet routed over the public Internet (not including over VPNs or other tunnels) should never have a source address in a bogon range. These are commonly found as the source addresses of DDoS attacks.
- beedogs 9y ago
  With CGNat, you're lucky if you even get a routeable IP address anymore. ISPs have actually gotten substantially worse over the past ten years in this regard.
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  I had one provider interfering with war thunder traffic somehow. packet loss always in the 20%+, which disappeared immediately if tunneled trough a vpn. switched provider and while war thunder now works, I can't play anymore dwarf fortress remote on my ipad. even diagnosing the issue and finding someone on the other side that understand the topic is hard. I'm no network engineer and definitely neither are the support guys. it's just a roulette. you have to change until you find one that works. and it sucks.
- technion 9y ago
  You can't be too mad about the full port range. Residential ISPs blocking port 25 outbound (spam malware) and inbound (people installing mailer services as an open relay by default) contributed to tonnes of unwanted traffic. I know there was an amount of collateral damage, but if you think about it, it's been many years since malware would get in user desktops and just send spam, largely due to this.
  - jonathanstrange 9y ago
    It's the internet, blocking ports without explicit reason is totally unacceptable. It's also in most cases since people will just tunnel their traffic over ports used by other applications, such as 80. The right response is to contact the owners of the servers/services they're running and tell them to configure them correctly - if they continue to abuse them or don't show the technical skills, then that's another matter.
  - gpvos 9y ago
    Blocking things like Windows file sharing ports by default is fine, as long as you have the option to turn that off. Other ports, including mail, should be open.
- cm2187 9y ago
  But at the same time doung nothing to prevent IP spoofing.
- ataturk 9y ago
  The problem is that "we" understand the issue, but Joe & Jane Suburbanite have absolutely no clue about any of it and when they vote, they vote for the guy with the nicest hair.
- paulie_a 9y ago
  At&t routers are complete garbage anyways. I've literally had the following conversation with a csr: Me: hi can you open up some ports on my router? CSR: sure which port? Me: all of them

Net neutrality started disappearing long before it was even called "net neutrality" --- a lot of residential ISPs won't even let others send packets to the full 64K port range of TCP/UDP to the IP it gives you, blocking some of them for "security reasons", throttling/cutting off certain protocols like BitTorrent, censoring "malicious" sites, etc. If we want true Internet connections we're going to have to fight a lot harder...

timmytim 9y ago
I would guess it has something to do with cisco asking them to help alleviate issues with their 1.1.1.1 squatting on a bunch of devices. I tested it when it came out, and if I set my DNS to 1.1.1.1, then logged into a hotel wireless network (that I knew was running those devices), as soon as a request was made, I was logged out of the captive portal. I would have expected 1.1.1.1 to already be blocked if anyone filters on bogon-space (or has dealt with i Is there a database of who blocks what? I searched but didn't find a collection anywhere. Unless we are looking at port 25 and whatnot. Yes, it is not allowing you to use a (not technically)-arbitrary port, but most would agree that the internet is better off for that.
- colechristensen 9y ago
  1/8 hasn't been "bogus" since 1/2010. ( http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.xhtml http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-addr... ) Using unallocated IPs for "internal" or bogus purposes is sketchy, continuing to use them after they are allocated is something else. Especially so nearly a decade on.
  - notdonspaulding 9y ago
    The wheels of technological change in the Telecom space turn very, VERY slowly. Not upgrading equipment and configs for 10 years is nothing in the ISP world.
    - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
      You'd be scarily surprised just how much telecommunications runs on Perl5 ranging around the ~150GB level. I had my stint at an ISP that worked with around 40 state level and national orgs. I saw the underbelly of how things work, and its frankly scary.
      - gpvos 9y ago
        Nothing wrong with Perl5 though.
        crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        There is when much of the code was "write once, read never". There's more than a a few dozen MB blobs of dense perl5 code that we had no clue what it actually did, and was told not to touch it, lest many things break. I had to end up touching one of them, because of things breaking with that subsystem and the new ticketing system that was being implemented. It had the wonderful line database_user = root database_password = [current mysql root password] Lest to say, I no longer work there.
        TeMPOraL 9y ago
        Every time I write some crap code at work, someone on HN tells a story about such horrors that I no longer feel bad. Thanks for making my day better :).
- technion 9y ago
  The most referred to bogon list is Team Cymru: https://www.team-cymru.com/bogon-reference.html https://www.team-cymru.com/bogon-reference.html This team provide a great side service - you can setup BGP with them using an internal AS. It's one of the few ways you can get practical experience setting up BGP in the home with a third party. I'm running it right now.
- nailer 9y ago
  For anyone else wondering: > A bogon prefix is a route that should never appear in the Internet routing table. A packet routed over the public Internet (not including over VPNs or other tunnels) should never have a source address in a bogon range. These are commonly found as the source addresses of DDoS attacks.
beedogs 9y ago
With CGNat, you're lucky if you even get a routeable IP address anymore. ISPs have actually gotten substantially worse over the past ten years in this regard.
LoSboccacc 9y ago
I had one provider interfering with war thunder traffic somehow. packet loss always in the 20%+, which disappeared immediately if tunneled trough a vpn. switched provider and while war thunder now works, I can't play anymore dwarf fortress remote on my ipad. even diagnosing the issue and finding someone on the other side that understand the topic is hard. I'm no network engineer and definitely neither are the support guys. it's just a roulette. you have to change until you find one that works. and it sucks.
technion 9y ago
You can't be too mad about the full port range. Residential ISPs blocking port 25 outbound (spam malware) and inbound (people installing mailer services as an open relay by default) contributed to tonnes of unwanted traffic. I know there was an amount of collateral damage, but if you think about it, it's been many years since malware would get in user desktops and just send spam, largely due to this.
- jonathanstrange 9y ago
  It's the internet, blocking ports without explicit reason is totally unacceptable. It's also in most cases since people will just tunnel their traffic over ports used by other applications, such as 80. The right response is to contact the owners of the servers/services they're running and tell them to configure them correctly - if they continue to abuse them or don't show the technical skills, then that's another matter.
- gpvos 9y ago
  Blocking things like Windows file sharing ports by default is fine, as long as you have the option to turn that off. Other ports, including mail, should be open.
cm2187 9y ago
But at the same time doung nothing to prevent IP spoofing.
ataturk 9y ago
The problem is that "we" understand the issue, but Joe & Jane Suburbanite have absolutely no clue about any of it and when they vote, they vote for the guy with the nicest hair.
paulie_a 9y ago
At&t routers are complete garbage anyways. I've literally had the following conversation with a csr: Me: hi can you open up some ports on my router? CSR: sure which port? Me: all of them