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Key quote from the article (IMHO): "The idea is not that people are or are not utilitarian; it’s that they will cite being utilitarian when it behooves them. P

by lukev 16y ago

Key quote from the article (IMHO): "The idea is not that people are or are not utilitarian; it’s that they will cite being utilitarian when it behooves them. People are aren’t using these principles and then applying them. They arrive at a judgement and seek a principle."

philwelch 16y ago
The real joke is that philosophers do this, too. If your ethical theory doesn't quite fit with people's moral intuitions, most philosophers will argue that, in itself, is a problem with the theory. This is why I don't put much stock in ethical theory--if intuition is a good enough moral guide that we use it to refute ethical theories, why do we need a theory? More damningly, on what other grounds can we possibly criticize an ethical theory?
- lukev 16y ago
  Well, I think the search for an ethical theory is still valid. That's one of the main exercises of philosophy, taking a lot of particular data points (in this case, moral intuitions) and trying to find some overarching pattern or system. Just because we haven't found a consistent one yet (or even if such a system does not exist) it doesn't mean the search isn't worthwhile.
rdouble 16y ago
The book "Ill Gotten Gains" by Leo Katz explores this subject in depth from the perspective of a lawyer. His thesis is that libertarianism can not be founded on utilitarianism, rather, it must have (and does) have a deontological foundation. It's a must read for anyone who finds this sort of thing interesting. http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Gotten-Gains-Evasion-Blackmail-Kindred/dp/0226425940 http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Gotten-Gains-Evasion-Blackmail-Kin...
- CWuestefeld 16y ago
  Looks interesting. I just ordered a used copy.
raganwald 16y ago
Of course I cannot speak for people on HN, but this has been my anecdotal experience. People cite all sort sof utilitarian justifications for believing in the absolute power of free markets, or of democracy, or of paying lower taxes, or whatever. I'm certainly representative. I like having the government provide my children's health care and enjoy living in a safe city. What a shocking surprise, I advocate those principles that I perceive (rightly or wrongly) as providing me with the things I like.
- Periodic 16y ago
  From looking at the voting habits of California residents, it looks to me like people will generally vote for anything that gives them something without much cost, and vote against anything that looks like an increased cost without a visible benefit. I wouldn't be surprised if people are making these votes, then trying to fit them to whatever political philosophy they have.
ergo98 16y ago
Bring up a discussion on piracy, DRM, intellectual rights, etc, and watch this play out in a very passionate way.

by lukev 16y ago

philwelch 16y ago

The real joke is that philosophers do this, too. If your ethical theory doesn't quite fit with people's moral intuitions, most philosophers will argue that, in itself, is a problem with the theory. This is why I don't put much stock in ethical theory--if intuition is a good enough moral guide that we use it to refute ethical theories, why do we need a theory? More damningly, on what other grounds can we possibly criticize an ethical theory?

lukev 16y ago
Well, I think the search for an ethical theory is still valid. That's one of the main exercises of philosophy, taking a lot of particular data points (in this case, moral intuitions) and trying to find some overarching pattern or system. Just because we haven't found a consistent one yet (or even if such a system does not exist) it doesn't mean the search isn't worthwhile.

rdouble 16y ago

The book "Ill Gotten Gains" by Leo Katz explores this subject in depth from the perspective of a lawyer. His thesis is that libertarianism can not be founded on utilitarianism, rather, it must have (and does) have a deontological foundation. It's a must read for anyone who finds this sort of thing interesting. http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Gotten-Gains-Evasion-Blackmail-Kindred/dp/0226425940 http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Gotten-Gains-Evasion-Blackmail-Kin...

CWuestefeld 16y ago
Looks interesting. I just ordered a used copy.

raganwald 16y ago

Of course I cannot speak for people on HN, but this has been my anecdotal experience. People cite all sort sof utilitarian justifications for believing in the absolute power of free markets, or of democracy, or of paying lower taxes, or whatever. I'm certainly representative. I like having the government provide my children's health care and enjoy living in a safe city. What a shocking surprise, I advocate those principles that I perceive (rightly or wrongly) as providing me with the things I like.

Periodic 16y ago
From looking at the voting habits of California residents, it looks to me like people will generally vote for anything that gives them something without much cost, and vote against anything that looks like an increased cost without a visible benefit. I wouldn't be surprised if people are making these votes, then trying to fit them to whatever political philosophy they have.

ergo98 16y ago

Bring up a discussion on piracy, DRM, intellectual rights, etc, and watch this play out in a very passionate way.