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Does anyone know why Amazon doesn't have a maps offering on AWS? I've heard their internal logistics GIS services are pretty advanced and it surprises me they d

by jefe_ 8y ago

Does anyone know why Amazon doesn't have a maps offering on AWS? I've heard their internal logistics GIS services are pretty advanced and it surprises me they don't have a GIS category on AWS to the point I'm convinced there must some very specific reason they've chosen not to implement. Companies like MapBox and Carto seem to be doing well, Microsoft and Google have map services, demand seems to exist. Additionally it seems they would find value in possessing a list of companies utilizing such services and be able to offer some interesting services. It's puzzling.

jillesvangurp 8y ago
They invested in and are partnering with Here for maps and navigation. Having worked there, providing global maps and navigation is a very non trivial thing to pull off; which is why there are only handful of companies doing their own maps. It took Apple and Google many years to stop depending on third party maps that they were licensing from Teleatlas (now owned by Tom Tom) and Navteq (now part of Here), which were at the time the only suppliers of maps and navigation world wide. Apple is still in the process of shifting away from Tom Tom I think. Ironically both got more serious about doing their own maps after Nokia bought Navteq. So, Amazon did the smart thing and simply partnered instead of reinventing that wheel so they could have a maps solution for their Android fork and not depend on Google Maps while still implementing the relevant APIs for app compatibility. Here is in fact using AWS so that ticks that box ... OSM is nice but entrenched in licensing issues that are preventing adoption by big corporations. That's the reason that you'll be hard pressed to find anything but niche products for navigation based on OSM. It's a great solution if you are not mixing your own data sources with what OSM provides but that is not an option for most commercial players and OSM licensing is all about preventing exactly that. Microsoft had OSM maps for a while on Bing but they couldn't do any fancy features based on their own data on top of it so it got scrapped.
Foremost 8y ago
Indeed, even Microsoft Azure launched their own Location Services as part of their cloud offering: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/location-based-services/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/location-based-se...
smt88 8y ago
AWS seems to me to mostly be a way to configure and sell capacity on hardware. Amazon probably has a lot of fantastic data and software that isn't available outside the company.
- pm90 8y ago
  AWS was one of the biggest profit centers for Amazon in several recent quarters. Why they don't monetize their GIS data yet is anyone's guess.
  - patja 8y ago
    Why don't they try to personalize or target the ads on my Kindle? It would be nice to not see ads for books I've already purchased from Amazon. They inscrutably leave a lot of missed opportunities on the table.
  - tmcw 8y ago
    They don't have GIS data to monetize, not of the sort that you could run a successful commercial geocoding or directions service on.
gowld 8y ago
https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html
- dsp1234 8y ago
  This is limited to Fire OS. "The Amazon Maps API is a programming interface that enables you to add mapping capabilities to your app on Fire phone and most Fire tablets." "The Amazon Maps API v2 is compatible with Fire OS 4.5.1 and higher, which is available on 3rd and 4th generation Fire tablets, and Fire phone. The Amazon Maps API v1 is compatible with the Fire phone and all Fire tablets except Kindle Fire (1st Generation)." https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/faq.html https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/faq.html
- jefe_ 8y ago
  Did not know about this, thanks for sharing. It almost increases the mystery in my mind. It appears this API is only available for use in Amazon Android apps, it's certainly marketed that way. It's as if they went 99% of the way of having a full map offering, but decided that Maps were somehow going to drive Kindle Fire adoption. Very interesting.
  - puzzle 8y ago
    More likely than not, because the data is not theirs (I think it's Navteq->Nokia->Here), they wouldn't be able to resell it with a markup at a competitive price, so they don't even try.
MetricMike 8y ago
They have several GIS repos at https://aws.amazon.com/earth/ https://aws.amazon.com/earth/ but their Google Maps equivalent is behind the Appstore (https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html) although as noted below, it's only for Fire apps. Definitely curious since they (obviously) have the technical ability to offer this service over the web but choose not to.
tmcw 8y ago
Supply is expensive, and running a 'maps offering' is more of a data-collection and data-maintenance challenge than a logistical challenge. Of course AWS probably will offer such a service eventually, simply to complete their Gotta Catch Them All product strategy, but for now they've seemed to focus on things where their value is in software and infrastructure, not in having a 500 person staff of people with the background and skills to validate and compile geospatial data. To the inevitable takes on this, no, it's not just a matter of downloading OpenStreetMap or any other data source. disclosure: former Mapbox person.
- mynewtb 8y ago
  > To the inevitable takes on this, no, it's not just a matter of downloading OpenStreetMap or any other data source. With services like openmaptiles.com, why not?
  - tmcw 8y ago
    This is the nth time answering this, but, well: Updates. Doing them efficiently. Vandalism detection. Geocoding and directions. Devops: this is not a trivial computing challenge. The list goes on.
- jstandard 8y ago
  Been eyeing Mapbox myself. How do you think OSM/Mapbox can deal with the constant burden of meta-data gathering? From some basic OSM v Google tests, OSM coverage was much lower for things like place names or speed limits. As you say, the infrastructure requirements for this seem massive, though perhaps getting better as GIS info become easier to gather.
  - lucb1e 8y ago
    > From some basic OSM v Google tests, OSM coverage was much lower for things like place names or speed limits. In which region did you test? The local mapping community can make a night and day difference. In Africa there are places almost in unmapped on Google that are extensively mapped on OSM (Google doesn't give a damn if there isn't money to be made). In western Europe it's pretty good, especially in the Netherlands and Germany (that I know of at least, perhaps other countries too). America, from what I've seen (I've never been there so never needed to use it) it can be either reasonably comprehensive or a total mess depending on the city or state or something.
samstave 8y ago
Likely because it would put it in direct competition with many of its customers.
jedberg 8y ago
They don't usually share data across the groups like that. They would essentially be asking Amazon retail to share proprietary data with AWS, which would then allow someone like FedEx to start using AWS to get that proprietary data. That data is probably much more valuable to Amazon retail hidden then it would ever be to AWS exposed.

by jefe_ 8y ago

jillesvangurp 8y ago

They invested in and are partnering with Here for maps and navigation. Having worked there, providing global maps and navigation is a very non trivial thing to pull off; which is why there are only handful of companies doing their own maps. It took Apple and Google many years to stop depending on third party maps that they were licensing from Teleatlas (now owned by Tom Tom) and Navteq (now part of Here), which were at the time the only suppliers of maps and navigation world wide. Apple is still in the process of shifting away from Tom Tom I think. Ironically both got more serious about doing their own maps after Nokia bought Navteq. So, Amazon did the smart thing and simply partnered instead of reinventing that wheel so they could have a maps solution for their Android fork and not depend on Google Maps while still implementing the relevant APIs for app compatibility. Here is in fact using AWS so that ticks that box ... OSM is nice but entrenched in licensing issues that are preventing adoption by big corporations. That's the reason that you'll be hard pressed to find anything but niche products for navigation based on OSM. It's a great solution if you are not mixing your own data sources with what OSM provides but that is not an option for most commercial players and OSM licensing is all about preventing exactly that. Microsoft had OSM maps for a while on Bing but they couldn't do any fancy features based on their own data on top of it so it got scrapped.

Foremost 8y ago

Indeed, even Microsoft Azure launched their own Location Services as part of their cloud offering: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/location-based-services/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/location-based-se...

smt88 8y ago

AWS seems to me to mostly be a way to configure and sell capacity on hardware. Amazon probably has a lot of fantastic data and software that isn't available outside the company.

pm90 8y ago
AWS was one of the biggest profit centers for Amazon in several recent quarters. Why they don't monetize their GIS data yet is anyone's guess.
- patja 8y ago
  Why don't they try to personalize or target the ads on my Kindle? It would be nice to not see ads for books I've already purchased from Amazon. They inscrutably leave a lot of missed opportunities on the table.
- tmcw 8y ago
  They don't have GIS data to monetize, not of the sort that you could run a successful commercial geocoding or directions service on.

gowld 8y ago

https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html

dsp1234 8y ago
This is limited to Fire OS. "The Amazon Maps API is a programming interface that enables you to add mapping capabilities to your app on Fire phone and most Fire tablets." "The Amazon Maps API v2 is compatible with Fire OS 4.5.1 and higher, which is available on 3rd and 4th generation Fire tablets, and Fire phone. The Amazon Maps API v1 is compatible with the Fire phone and all Fire tablets except Kindle Fire (1st Generation)." https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/faq.html https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/faq.html
jefe_ 8y ago
Did not know about this, thanks for sharing. It almost increases the mystery in my mind. It appears this API is only available for use in Amazon Android apps, it's certainly marketed that way. It's as if they went 99% of the way of having a full map offering, but decided that Maps were somehow going to drive Kindle Fire adoption. Very interesting.
- puzzle 8y ago
  More likely than not, because the data is not theirs (I think it's Navteq->Nokia->Here), they wouldn't be able to resell it with a markup at a competitive price, so they don't even try.

MetricMike 8y ago

They have several GIS repos at https://aws.amazon.com/earth/ https://aws.amazon.com/earth/ but their Google Maps equivalent is behind the Appstore (https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html https://developer.amazon.com/docs/maps/get-started.html) although as noted below, it's only for Fire apps. Definitely curious since they (obviously) have the technical ability to offer this service over the web but choose not to.

tmcw 8y ago

Supply is expensive, and running a 'maps offering' is more of a data-collection and data-maintenance challenge than a logistical challenge. Of course AWS probably will offer such a service eventually, simply to complete their Gotta Catch Them All product strategy, but for now they've seemed to focus on things where their value is in software and infrastructure, not in having a 500 person staff of people with the background and skills to validate and compile geospatial data. To the inevitable takes on this, no, it's not just a matter of downloading OpenStreetMap or any other data source. disclosure: former Mapbox person.

mynewtb 8y ago
> To the inevitable takes on this, no, it's not just a matter of downloading OpenStreetMap or any other data source. With services like openmaptiles.com, why not?
- tmcw 8y ago
  This is the nth time answering this, but, well: Updates. Doing them efficiently. Vandalism detection. Geocoding and directions. Devops: this is not a trivial computing challenge. The list goes on.
jstandard 8y ago
Been eyeing Mapbox myself. How do you think OSM/Mapbox can deal with the constant burden of meta-data gathering? From some basic OSM v Google tests, OSM coverage was much lower for things like place names or speed limits. As you say, the infrastructure requirements for this seem massive, though perhaps getting better as GIS info become easier to gather.
- lucb1e 8y ago
  > From some basic OSM v Google tests, OSM coverage was much lower for things like place names or speed limits. In which region did you test? The local mapping community can make a night and day difference. In Africa there are places almost in unmapped on Google that are extensively mapped on OSM (Google doesn't give a damn if there isn't money to be made). In western Europe it's pretty good, especially in the Netherlands and Germany (that I know of at least, perhaps other countries too). America, from what I've seen (I've never been there so never needed to use it) it can be either reasonably comprehensive or a total mess depending on the city or state or something.

samstave 8y ago

Likely because it would put it in direct competition with many of its customers.

jedberg 8y ago

They don't usually share data across the groups like that. They would essentially be asking Amazon retail to share proprietary data with AWS, which would then allow someone like FedEx to start using AWS to get that proprietary data. That data is probably much more valuable to Amazon retail hidden then it would ever be to AWS exposed.