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The secret to 4 letter domains: include one (and only one) digit
- pjhyett 16y agoIf you really want a 4-letter .com, plenty of people sell them for relatively little money. I own dufz.com, ikxr.com, izkc.com, liwk.com, puzd.com and I don't remember paying more than $10 for each. I also own vjot.com, a more readable name, which I think I paid around $100 for, but this was a couple of years ago.
- count 16y agoThere are a few not taken - I've got one that I only paid $9 for :)
- hcurtiss 16y agoI'm interested in a couple domains that appear to be unused, but I'm having trouble contacting the owner. How do you go about making the offer? I've emailed a couple contacts now obtained off of whois and it seems they never reply.
- pjhyett 16y agoSometimes the domains will be listed for sale on sedo.com, otherwise you can use a service (also on sedo.com) to try and contact the owner on your behalf.
- qjz 16y agoAs a domain owner and frequent recipient of such requests, here are a few tips: First of all, don't assume the domains are unused. You have no way of knowing this. I have domains that are critical to my infrastructure but don't necessarily have a web site (or even public DNS records). I'll never sell them. I have others that are look-alike domains that aren't activated in order to prevent conflict with my other domains. I'm unlikely to sell these, either. Secondly, and this is really important, make your offer as professional and informative as possible. I never reply to offers from freemail addresses that amount to something like, "Hey, I'm interested in buying a domain that you don't appear to be using for an awesome project I'm working on. Please reply ASAP. George". You don't have to divulge your business model, but at least include the name of the domain you're interested in, your FULL name, a phone number, and preferably a company name and/or related URL. Consider including your offer in the email, since it's more likely to get a response if it's at all worth considering. Serious offers are much more likely to get a reply, even if it's to say, "Sorry, not interested." If you call and leave a message, include the same information. But keep in mind that I probably won't return a long distance call, so consider saying that you'll call back at a certain time, and do it. This will help to show that you're seriously interested. Whatever you do, don't file a complaint with the registrar or try to initiate an unauthorized transfer. This will only annoy the domain owner and could destroy your credibility. Finally, understand that the domain owner has no obligation to respond to your offer in any way. If you really want a response, follow up a couple of weeks later, and be prepared to make a serious offer. If you don't want to be considered a pest, stop after 3 attempts and give it a reasonable long rest before trying again (6 months to a year).
- Poiesis 16y agoFirst of all, don't assume the domains are unused. You have no way of knowing this. I have domains that are critical to my infrastructure but don't necessarily have a web site (or even public DNS records). I'll never sell them. How does this work? I'm not following you. It would seem that the less people/systems that know about a name, the less critical it is.
- billybob 16y agoMy question is: if there are no public DNS records, how is the domain name being used? Not doubting, I just don't get it.
- niels_olson 16y agoHe could be using a public-facing DNS server that only responds to queries from certain hosts.
- ig1 16y agoIt could be being used for java package names.
- duck 16y agoResponding to billybob (I guess the thread is too deep): I've used domain names with no public DNS for corporate Active Directory domains. They might have a different domain for their website, but by registering it you are covered.
- ohashi 16y agoYou forgot the most important piece of advice. A number not just showing interest but an exact dollar (or euro or whatever) interest. You will almost certainly negotiate more and try not to offend the current owner with a lowball. If you want it, someone else probably did before you.
- mcyger 16y agoI've purchased quite a few by contacting the owner. Always specify the domian name and make your outreach email as professional and formal as possible. I never include an actual offer so I can at least get them to reply (if you offer too little, they may not even reply). I never discuss the reason for purchase. The first email is only to determine their interest and start the dialogue. If they fail to respond in a week (it takes time), I call the phone number listed on the whois record and try the personal touch.
- Poiesis 16y agoI had someone call me up for a domain our company wasn't using any more. He asked, and I simply transferred ownership. It had been made clear to me earlier that the domain was not at all desired by the company.
- bkudria 16y agoOn the other hand, four-letter domains which are actual English words (like the name of my company) go for much, much, much more.
- niyazpk 16y agoProbably other than some URL shortening service what are the reasons to be so desperate for a 4 letter domain name? Fancy URLs for personal use can be reason I suppose. http://al3x.net/ http://al3x.net/ comes to mind.
- icey 16y agoIf you decide to do this, save yourself some headaches by also registering the spelled out version of the number as well (if it's going to be pronounced as a number). This doesn't matter for domains like al3x.net, but it does matter for domains like ftw1.com. There will inevitably be users that try to go to ftwone.com (and possibly ftwwon.com as well).
- thomasb 16y agoJust registered ftw1.com... I like this idea. I think there could be a few interesting applications.
- lucisferre 16y agoUgh domain squatting is possibly the most morally bankrupt web-based business practice I can think of.
- icey 16y agoHow does it differ from real-estate speculation in your mind? Do you develop every domain name you purchase?
- DrJokepu 16y agoThere's quite a lot of difference between buying a domain with the intention or prospect of putting something of value it and buying up a large array of domains without any intention whatsoever to ever put any content on it or make any use of it besides squatting. The second is a blatant waste of preciously limited resources and should not be allowed in my opinion.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- icey 16y agoWhat would you propose? Require an essay declaring your intentions for every domain prior to purchase? How is it less valuable if the purchaser wants to make $100 from selling the domain versus making $100 on it selling trinkets? I own a lot of domains that I may or may not do something with in the future. What should the cutoff point be? Should I be penalized after my 10th domain? 30th? 100th? (I don't like squatters in general, but that doesn't mean I think they should be outlawed.)
- there 16y agosimilarly, i own domains that i've used in the past that are now sitting dormant. i don't want to let them expire and immediately get snatched up by a squatter, so what am i to do? if i put up a "for sale" page on them, am i a squatter now?
- 16y ago
- Revisor 16y agoRead my short guide to a good domain elsewhere on HN and for your own sake avoid domains with digits. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1659674 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1659674
- qeorge 16y agoGood tips. I advise the "radio test" to all of my clients.
- nerfhammer 16y agoUnfortunately the search for short domains leads people to abandon this rule. (worst offender of all time: del.icio.us) If you look at the YC list it looks like at least half the YC startups would fail the radio test: https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t_toYuVyy6fci0MAiIaZ30A&hl=en#gid=0 https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t_toYuVyy6fci0MAiIa...
- InclinedPlane 16y agoIsn't the true version of the radio test whether when someone types what they hear into google they end up on your site?
- jamesbritt 16y agoUnless the digit actually plays into the name. I put up the Web 2.0 Validator site: web2.0validator.com (now on vacation until I get around to updating some code). Interestingly, someone wrote to me asking how I managed to get such a domain; I pointed out the domain is simply 0validator.com, nothing magical. Which of, course, means I can plan on web3.0validator.com :)
- Revisor 16y agoDomain hacks are funny but counterproductive and problematic in the long run. Domain hacks involving digits are a marketing problem squared. See the reasoning behind the switch from del.icio.us to Delicious.com: So why did we switch to delicious.com? We’ve seen a zillion different confusions and misspellings of “del.icio.us” over the years (for example, “de.licio.us”, “del.icio.us.com”, and “del.licio.us”), so moving to delicious.com will make it easier for people to find the site and share it with their friends. http://blog.delicious.com/blog/2008/07/oh-happy-day.html http://blog.delicious.com/blog/2008/07/oh-happy-day.html
- dangrossman 16y agoThere always seem to be unregistered 4-letter .com domains when I look. When I bought awio.com it was simply unregistered. Taking a sample of 500 names and then saying all of the hundreds of thousands of other names must be registered is just wrong.
- nerfhammer 16y agoI tried it with much larger samples for that character distribution and have yet to find a single unregistered name. You can't say with certainty that it must be that 100% are registered but I think that extrapolating from large random samples is a pretty good way of making inferences.
- ohashi 16y agoFaster to just scan the zonefiles. You run into a black swan problem with this technique. However, that said, all of them WERE registered, TWICE throughout history. Once way back and again more recently (someone wrote 2007, sounds about right). People have realized the cost of holding them is higher than the potential sales in many cases, especially at the bottom of the quality barrel. They weren't kept because they sucked but domain investors like all people like patterns and herding and get sucked into poor investments.
- drenei 16y ago"The results surprised me. Apparently the optimal number of digits to include is 1, and the more digits you have the more likely it is to be registered. In fact, it appears that someone has registered every dot-com combination of 4 digits." It shouldn't be completely surprising. The more characters (c) than digits (d) in a name, the more options available. 3c1d has more options (26x26x26x10=175760) than 4d (10x10x10x10=10000). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial EDIT: And also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_theory
- dododo 16y agofor 3c1d i think a better count is four times higher: you can have aaa1, aa1a, a1aa and 1aaa, which your count of 26x26x26x10 only includes one of these options. i don't think factorial is relevant here: combinatorially, factorial represents the process of sampling without replacement: so if you were to be able to only use each letter once in each domain, then you would get 26!/4!26! possibilities for 4c. this is combinatorics: the art of advanced counting, not probability, really.
- mrcharles 16y agoAnother trick is to use .org or something. I got my four letter domain name a few years back, and it's even pronounceable! And it was pretty close to the kind of thing I wanted. bluh.org, a great website name for pointless nonsense!
- bond 16y agoAs far as i know 4 letter .com were all registered in 2007... What you see now is people who didn't renew their 4 letter .com domains... And for those who are down voting me, here's the proof: http://www.namepros.com/short-domain-discussion/161235-llll-com-countdown.html http://www.namepros.com/short-domain-discussion/161235-llll-...
- terra_t 16y agoHere's an old report on how 3 letter domains got snapped up at the height of the .com bubble... http://www.honeylocust.com/trigraphs/ http://www.honeylocust.com/trigraphs/
- jjcm 16y agoThe real secret is to just register a .org name. jjcm.org
- DotSauce 16y agoGive me an example of a 4 character domain with a digit in it and I will suggest a much better alternative. If you want to have a respectable web presence, use keywords or find a quality brand on the aftermarket. If you must, the real secret to 4 letter domains is backordering as they expire or making an offer to existing owners.
- ohashi 16y agoHow to register the least valued domains algorithmically :) I suspect where the 1 digit is makes a big difference LLLD being a decent combo or DLLL but LDLL or LLDL are probably almost all garbage.
- marknutter 16y agoAwesome post! I just bought 4RE4.com for my little web shop, areastudios.com. I think I may actually use the 4 letter version from now on :)
- emehrkay 16y agoMine is 8trk.com //we'll (re)launch later this year and I'll do a "rate my startup" post :)
- obiefernandez 16y agoThanks for the awesome advice. Just registered ob1e.com :)
- jasonjei 16y agoThis tactic surprisingly works very well with Chinese websites. Most Chinese firms have reached the conclusion that a short domain name with letters and numbers work even better than a cute, clever wordplay. Those names don't work in Chinese anyway as Chinese is based off ideographs. Short combinations of letters and numbers (especially with 8s) work well.
- kilomanamolik 16y agowhat are your favorite domain checker tools?
- ljf 16y agoloads of good true 4 letter domains around if you don't won't a .com just bought we.gd om.gd and whi.im all at standard price and none been regd before. try iwantmyname.com to find and reg 2 letter names but other registrars often sell them cheaper. I used modone.gd and domainmonster.com (and before I get accused of squatting... we good is the name of an company I'll be opening after my current employment, thought om.gd will be perfect of url shortening with a twist... wait and see. whi.im is for 'things to do suggestions that poll your friends' ... lots of ideas planned at the moment just not got names for the others.
- ljf 16y agoalso eurodns.com sell .com.es for just $5 a year, not bad for doing hacks like here.xyz.com.es for(here xyz comes) hard to spell out but cheap enough not to care...