5 ms·

I'm in NYC. I know a few people who played with it. It barely works. I'm all for this kind of tech solutions, but for crying out loud pretending that this is a

I'm in NYC. I know a few people who played with it. It barely works. I'm all for this kind of tech solutions, but for crying out loud pretending that this is a replacement for ISPs in NYC really discredits techies.

isostatic 9y ago
Why doesn't a startup run their own fibre? Are building owners that protective? Actually scratch that, I tried getting a 1 gig cross manhattan link. Cost more than 1g to London.
- cimmanom 9y ago
  Building owners? Before you get anywhere near the buildings, you have to dig up the streets to run cabling around the city. Any idea how much that costs?
  - ybloviator 9y ago
    Pilot is doing this cheaper than others, look into how they get their fiber in the ground...
  - notyourday 9y ago
    That's what you outsource to the latest incarnation of Metromedia Fiber Network - Zayo.
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    Speaking of London, talking to building owners is exactly what Hyperoptic did to build out a fibre network in London. Unfortunately, the building owner where I used to live wasn't interested -- it turned out most of the building was empty, people keeping apartments for occasional visits or as an investment :-( https://www.hyperoptic.com/how-hyperoptic-works/ https://www.hyperoptic.com/how-hyperoptic-works/ or https://www.hyperoptic.com/map/ https://www.hyperoptic.com/map/
  - isostatic 9y ago
    Don't you have ducts? How about sewers?
    - cimmanom 9y ago
      The city's network of utilities long predates any sort of central authority managing them. Each utility maintains its own network of infrastructure, independent of any other; most of them are not mapped, and where mapping has been done it's not shared with the municipalities or other utilities, let alone publicly available. There are no ducts set up for general usage. And the sewers a) aren't human-travelable like the old ones in Paris or parts of London; and b) overflow in heavy rains. You probably don't want to run electrical wiring through them.
- notyourday 9y ago
  It depends on the location. If you are talking about downtown Manhattan you can get dark fiber between any major buildings for about $5k/mo. If you are not in a mojor building then Zayo would do it for about $20k build out worst case scenario + same $5k/mo, since Zayo touches a boatload of manholes. There was also Metro Optical but I dont know how large is their footprint. They are quite creative. But in general, go to a decent building and order Cogent. That gets your building on the net. Cogent eats fiber extension charges left and right. Plus you actually get 1Gbit/sec for $500/mo. Now you take that 1Gbit/sec and wire to neighboring buildings by running ethernet or standard yellow fiber. That's how ghetto ISPs get stuff done. It was done for years because it works. There's incentive for those who own building to form a community ISP or provide an access to a community ISP because those that own builds want the same product and they know they can share some of the costs.
  - isostatic 9y ago
    Yes, that sounds about right -- we pay about $4k for 1gig midtown-midtown However GTT offered me 1gig from New York office to London Docklands for $2400! Under $2k for p2p to office in Washington DC. If local internet is $500pcm , get two lines into the building for $1k/month, charge 50 people $30 a month and give them 1 gig and 25:1 contention ratio, plus the cost of dropping the fibre and a router, leaving $6k a year. It's not going to give you a full time job, but will give you some decent internet and a bit of pocket money to look after it.
    - notyourday 9y ago
      There are actually a lot more interesting things that you can do: Order an SDI video circuit from VZ to one of the interconnect buildings. That's $1.5K/mo but it is delivered as a point to point single mode fiber with VZ gear being plugged in. After they install it and leave unplug VZ gear. Plug in your 10G. You just got yourself a 10G transport for $1.5K/mo.
      - notyourday 8y ago
        Remember, because it is SDI there's no way for VZ gear to know that it is actually unplugged.
nycmesh 9y ago
Our average speeds connecting to our supernodes is around 100Mbps. I'm not sure what you are referring to.
- ybloviator 9y ago
  How does it work for torrenting? Does VoIP work? What if I want to run a server at home?
- frockington 9y ago
  What is the median speed?
- gowld 9y ago
  What's the throughput?
  - et2o 9y ago
    What's the latency?
pessimizer 9y ago
So it works, then? Good news. If you're saying that what they need is more internet bandwidth and better coverage, I'm pretty sure that's what they said themselves in the article.
pascalxus 9y ago
Why all the negativity? Isn't this tech in the early stages? Isn't there hope that these issues can be worked out? and in what way was it "barely working"? I had at&t in one of SF's typically old buildings and I can tell you, the internet there barely worked - i had to reset the router about once a week, plus hour long downtimes not uncommon. Even now, when I'm in a brand new 3 year new townhouse, I still have a reset the router once or twice a year and I get half the speed I'm paying for on a DSL broadband plan, not to mention that I get stuck in a 12 month contract anytime i want to switch plans. Considering that there are currently no other options than the att/comcast douopoly, I would think people would give a little more credit for providing alternatives, even if it's not perfect yet.
- notyourday 9y ago
  No, this tech is not in early stages. This tech has been around for years. We have been running this stuff between building since mid nineties. The cards were called "wireless T1" and they were full size ISA cards. It was pre-DSL days. I had a T1 terminating on 4th floor of a brownstone and a couple of my friend who lived across the street got connectivity from me using those cards because Linux supported them. No one else on a street had anything other than a dial up. Eventually we ran Ethernet to the other neighbors because we did not need to run across the street and those neighbors agreed to share a cost of the circuit. The reason why I'm negative about it is that it gives people incorrect perception. The perception is that my neighbor does not need to pay Optimum or Time Warner or Verizon for internet and he or she can watch Netflix. And that's simply not the case because as soon as five of my neighbors get this WiFi chokes because in a regular Brooklyn block it is going to add another 40-50 wifi access points. Negative perception from folks who own their houses is a death to community ISPs. This kind of wireless is not a solution. A solution is to wire as much as possible, including wiring between the buildings of my neighbors who own their houses and if needed terminating a single high bandwidth wireless or fiber link into a node that carries entire block. P.S. I reached out to these guys about a year ago offering to help them when I read another piece written about them. Maybe it even was on HN. I did not get any response.
callil 9y ago
I manage 3 nodes in brooklyn and the speeds are ~150mbps. It's so reliable that no spot has a backup connection so it is acting just as that - an ISP. I don't see how the ambition is a discredit to techies (lol).

isostatic 9y ago

Why doesn't a startup run their own fibre? Are building owners that protective? Actually scratch that, I tried getting a 1 gig cross manhattan link. Cost more than 1g to London.

cimmanom 9y ago
Building owners? Before you get anywhere near the buildings, you have to dig up the streets to run cabling around the city. Any idea how much that costs?
- ybloviator 9y ago
  Pilot is doing this cheaper than others, look into how they get their fiber in the ground...
- notyourday 9y ago
  That's what you outsource to the latest incarnation of Metromedia Fiber Network - Zayo.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  Speaking of London, talking to building owners is exactly what Hyperoptic did to build out a fibre network in London. Unfortunately, the building owner where I used to live wasn't interested -- it turned out most of the building was empty, people keeping apartments for occasional visits or as an investment :-( https://www.hyperoptic.com/how-hyperoptic-works/ https://www.hyperoptic.com/how-hyperoptic-works/ or https://www.hyperoptic.com/map/ https://www.hyperoptic.com/map/
- isostatic 9y ago
  Don't you have ducts? How about sewers?
  - cimmanom 9y ago
    The city's network of utilities long predates any sort of central authority managing them. Each utility maintains its own network of infrastructure, independent of any other; most of them are not mapped, and where mapping has been done it's not shared with the municipalities or other utilities, let alone publicly available. There are no ducts set up for general usage. And the sewers a) aren't human-travelable like the old ones in Paris or parts of London; and b) overflow in heavy rains. You probably don't want to run electrical wiring through them.
notyourday 9y ago
It depends on the location. If you are talking about downtown Manhattan you can get dark fiber between any major buildings for about $5k/mo. If you are not in a mojor building then Zayo would do it for about $20k build out worst case scenario + same $5k/mo, since Zayo touches a boatload of manholes. There was also Metro Optical but I dont know how large is their footprint. They are quite creative. But in general, go to a decent building and order Cogent. That gets your building on the net. Cogent eats fiber extension charges left and right. Plus you actually get 1Gbit/sec for $500/mo. Now you take that 1Gbit/sec and wire to neighboring buildings by running ethernet or standard yellow fiber. That's how ghetto ISPs get stuff done. It was done for years because it works. There's incentive for those who own building to form a community ISP or provide an access to a community ISP because those that own builds want the same product and they know they can share some of the costs.
- isostatic 9y ago
  Yes, that sounds about right -- we pay about $4k for 1gig midtown-midtown However GTT offered me 1gig from New York office to London Docklands for $2400! Under $2k for p2p to office in Washington DC. If local internet is $500pcm , get two lines into the building for $1k/month, charge 50 people $30 a month and give them 1 gig and 25:1 contention ratio, plus the cost of dropping the fibre and a router, leaving $6k a year. It's not going to give you a full time job, but will give you some decent internet and a bit of pocket money to look after it.
  - notyourday 9y ago
    There are actually a lot more interesting things that you can do: Order an SDI video circuit from VZ to one of the interconnect buildings. That's $1.5K/mo but it is delivered as a point to point single mode fiber with VZ gear being plugged in. After they install it and leave unplug VZ gear. Plug in your 10G. You just got yourself a 10G transport for $1.5K/mo.
    - notyourday 8y ago
      Remember, because it is SDI there's no way for VZ gear to know that it is actually unplugged.

nycmesh 9y ago

Our average speeds connecting to our supernodes is around 100Mbps. I'm not sure what you are referring to.

ybloviator 9y ago
How does it work for torrenting? Does VoIP work? What if I want to run a server at home?
frockington 9y ago
What is the median speed?
gowld 9y ago
What's the throughput?
- et2o 9y ago
  What's the latency?

pessimizer 9y ago

So it works, then? Good news. If you're saying that what they need is more internet bandwidth and better coverage, I'm pretty sure that's what they said themselves in the article.

pascalxus 9y ago

Why all the negativity? Isn't this tech in the early stages? Isn't there hope that these issues can be worked out? and in what way was it "barely working"? I had at&t in one of SF's typically old buildings and I can tell you, the internet there barely worked - i had to reset the router about once a week, plus hour long downtimes not uncommon. Even now, when I'm in a brand new 3 year new townhouse, I still have a reset the router once or twice a year and I get half the speed I'm paying for on a DSL broadband plan, not to mention that I get stuck in a 12 month contract anytime i want to switch plans. Considering that there are currently no other options than the att/comcast douopoly, I would think people would give a little more credit for providing alternatives, even if it's not perfect yet.

notyourday 9y ago
No, this tech is not in early stages. This tech has been around for years. We have been running this stuff between building since mid nineties. The cards were called "wireless T1" and they were full size ISA cards. It was pre-DSL days. I had a T1 terminating on 4th floor of a brownstone and a couple of my friend who lived across the street got connectivity from me using those cards because Linux supported them. No one else on a street had anything other than a dial up. Eventually we ran Ethernet to the other neighbors because we did not need to run across the street and those neighbors agreed to share a cost of the circuit. The reason why I'm negative about it is that it gives people incorrect perception. The perception is that my neighbor does not need to pay Optimum or Time Warner or Verizon for internet and he or she can watch Netflix. And that's simply not the case because as soon as five of my neighbors get this WiFi chokes because in a regular Brooklyn block it is going to add another 40-50 wifi access points. Negative perception from folks who own their houses is a death to community ISPs. This kind of wireless is not a solution. A solution is to wire as much as possible, including wiring between the buildings of my neighbors who own their houses and if needed terminating a single high bandwidth wireless or fiber link into a node that carries entire block. P.S. I reached out to these guys about a year ago offering to help them when I read another piece written about them. Maybe it even was on HN. I did not get any response.

callil 9y ago

I manage 3 nodes in brooklyn and the speeds are ~150mbps. It's so reliable that no spot has a backup connection so it is acting just as that - an ISP. I don't see how the ambition is a discredit to techies (lol).