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The rate limit applies to everyone equally so you can write a bot to upvote all your links but someone can then write a bot to downvote them. The default scorin

The rate limit applies to everyone equally so you can write a bot to upvote all your links but someone can then write a bot to downvote them. The default scoring system is meant to be overwritten and can help weed out the bot attempts: https://github.com/jivesearch/jivesearch/blob/master/search/vote/postgresql.go#L80-L94 https://github.com/jivesearch/jivesearch/blob/master/search/.... Reddit has tons of manipulation by users yet relevancy seems to be very good there.

notheguyouthink 8y ago
It does? Reddit was manipulated to a massive degree and, as far as many are concerned, throws away any credibility on the relevancy of popularity.
- brentadamson 8y ago
  I visit my subscribed subreddits frequently b/c I find posts that are highly relevant to my interests.
  - notheguyouthink 8y ago
    So did (and still do) a lot of political discussions on Reddit. Then we find out that they're heavily being manipulated by Russia. Those people thought those posts were organically, communally upvoted and vetted. Turns out, they were manipulated heavily. Any heavily manipulated system could have organic and true content for some people. I think the goal would be to have trust in the platform. Reddit, as of late, has no trust with anything of meaning. It has been shown to be manipulated by companies and governments. I could hire a firm to push my content in your favorite subreddits.. so I struggle to see how Reddit is remotely a good platform for non-manipulated discovering content. Many people don't like that Google can alter their searches, providing bad incentives. A Reddit-like search now opens up the ability to manipulate your searches to ad agencies, governments, bad actors, etc.
    - brentadamson 8y ago
      What's the alternative? As others have pointed out the results as they stand aren't that good and, as you point out, other search engines have their own incentives to push stuff to the top. Since the scoring system can be customized I think we can eventually figure out a way to deal with bots but it will always be done in a way that has to treat all domains equally. I think it would be appropriate to have our scoring system regularly audited (along with the rest of the code) to ensure that we treat all domains equally and that no modifications are being made to the rest of the code in regards to privacy. If, after all of that, you aren't satisfied then by all means you can run your own instance and order the results as you see fit while blocking others from upvoting/downvoting. EDIT: BTW, I am not suggesting that the voting system is set in stone. If there is a better way then I'd love to hear it! I do understand the drawbacks to the users voting and I hope I am not coming across as being completely inflexible on this point. I just haven't come up with a better alternative and haven't gotten much in terms of concrete suggestions.
      - notheguyouthink 8y ago
        > What's the alternative? As others have pointed out the results as they stand aren't that good and, as you point out, other search engines have their own incentives to push stuff to the top. That's the million dollar question isn't it? If I had an answer, I'd have a product ;) That doesn't change the fact though that I don't trust Reddit any further than I can throw it. It's fun for memes, but beyond that it's been proven to having been manipulated multiple times now. > Since the scoring system can be customized I think we can eventually figure out a way to deal with bots but it will always be done in a way that has to treat all domains equally. I think it would be appropriate to have our scoring system regularly audited (along with the rest of the code) to ensure that we treat all domains equally and that no modifications are being made to the rest of the code in regards to privacy. Yea, I hope. I'm not trying to knock your product at all btw. If you read my first comment, I even said I love the idea of a voting based search, but I just can't trust the public to do the voting. If it was based on a peer network (brothers friend, brother's friend's friend, etc), maybe that would be better. Obviously though there are challenges with that sort of method, I'm not saying it's perfect or even good - it was just an idea after 30s of thinking haha. > EDIT: BTW, I am not suggesting that the voting system is set in stone. If there is a better way then I'd love to hear it! I do understand the drawbacks to the users voting and I hope I am not coming across as being completely inflexible on this point. I just haven't come up with a better alternative and haven't gotten much in terms of concrete suggestions. You haven't gotten concrete suggestions because I think no one knows the answer. Information manipulation is, in my opinion, the biggest problem facing humanity right now. Literally. So it's no surprised that our ideas to prevent manipulation at scale are lacking.

notheguyouthink 8y ago

It does? Reddit was manipulated to a massive degree and, as far as many are concerned, throws away any credibility on the relevancy of popularity.

brentadamson 8y ago
I visit my subscribed subreddits frequently b/c I find posts that are highly relevant to my interests.
- notheguyouthink 8y ago
  So did (and still do) a lot of political discussions on Reddit. Then we find out that they're heavily being manipulated by Russia. Those people thought those posts were organically, communally upvoted and vetted. Turns out, they were manipulated heavily. Any heavily manipulated system could have organic and true content for some people. I think the goal would be to have trust in the platform. Reddit, as of late, has no trust with anything of meaning. It has been shown to be manipulated by companies and governments. I could hire a firm to push my content in your favorite subreddits.. so I struggle to see how Reddit is remotely a good platform for non-manipulated discovering content. Many people don't like that Google can alter their searches, providing bad incentives. A Reddit-like search now opens up the ability to manipulate your searches to ad agencies, governments, bad actors, etc.
  - brentadamson 8y ago
    What's the alternative? As others have pointed out the results as they stand aren't that good and, as you point out, other search engines have their own incentives to push stuff to the top. Since the scoring system can be customized I think we can eventually figure out a way to deal with bots but it will always be done in a way that has to treat all domains equally. I think it would be appropriate to have our scoring system regularly audited (along with the rest of the code) to ensure that we treat all domains equally and that no modifications are being made to the rest of the code in regards to privacy. If, after all of that, you aren't satisfied then by all means you can run your own instance and order the results as you see fit while blocking others from upvoting/downvoting. EDIT: BTW, I am not suggesting that the voting system is set in stone. If there is a better way then I'd love to hear it! I do understand the drawbacks to the users voting and I hope I am not coming across as being completely inflexible on this point. I just haven't come up with a better alternative and haven't gotten much in terms of concrete suggestions.
    - notheguyouthink 8y ago
      > What's the alternative? As others have pointed out the results as they stand aren't that good and, as you point out, other search engines have their own incentives to push stuff to the top. That's the million dollar question isn't it? If I had an answer, I'd have a product ;) That doesn't change the fact though that I don't trust Reddit any further than I can throw it. It's fun for memes, but beyond that it's been proven to having been manipulated multiple times now. > Since the scoring system can be customized I think we can eventually figure out a way to deal with bots but it will always be done in a way that has to treat all domains equally. I think it would be appropriate to have our scoring system regularly audited (along with the rest of the code) to ensure that we treat all domains equally and that no modifications are being made to the rest of the code in regards to privacy. Yea, I hope. I'm not trying to knock your product at all btw. If you read my first comment, I even said I love the idea of a voting based search, but I just can't trust the public to do the voting. If it was based on a peer network (brothers friend, brother's friend's friend, etc), maybe that would be better. Obviously though there are challenges with that sort of method, I'm not saying it's perfect or even good - it was just an idea after 30s of thinking haha. > EDIT: BTW, I am not suggesting that the voting system is set in stone. If there is a better way then I'd love to hear it! I do understand the drawbacks to the users voting and I hope I am not coming across as being completely inflexible on this point. I just haven't come up with a better alternative and haven't gotten much in terms of concrete suggestions. You haven't gotten concrete suggestions because I think no one knows the answer. Information manipulation is, in my opinion, the biggest problem facing humanity right now. Literally. So it's no surprised that our ideas to prevent manipulation at scale are lacking.