>Just because the state provides benefits (self-defense, rule of law, etc) doesn't preclude you from ownership rights, not really following your argument there.

>Just because the state provides benefits (self-defense, rule of law, etc) doesn't preclude you from ownership rights, not really following your argument there. Its a fundamental different view of reality and especially society. We are animals, we have no rights and not duties. We do what we want. Things like ownership are derived not from some concept of rights, but from power. We combine our power through government, and in doing so grant the ability to own things. Theft is wrong, not for a moral reason, but because we decided to punish those who steal. This view doesn't completely reject the notion of rights and duties, because we can still use the concept of such to determine how we run our combinations of power. But it does do away with the assumption they inherently exist. It becomes something of a more philosophical question, much like asking does math exist outside of humanity (or any other intelligence that is able to understand the concept of math).