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> So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X - The kernel (yes, there's Darwin — I don't believe it's possible to replace a working macOS kern

by zeveb 9y ago

> So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X - The kernel (yes, there's Darwin — I don't believe it's possible to replace a working macOS kernel with my own build) - The window manager - The Finder - Cocoa - Safari - XCode (although I believe some components are open source) - iMessage - Facetime

scarface74 9y ago
The Window Manager - nothing stopping you from using XWindows. The Finder - it's just a file manager, what's stopping you from using any other file manager? Cocoa - is just a Framework for building Mac apps. Nothing stopping you from using another Framework Xcode - just an IDE on top of open source build tools. IMessage - just a messaging program. Nothing stopping you from using another messaging program. FaceTime - just video chat, nothing stopping you from using another video chat. So what part of the "kernel" are you trying to replace and to add what functionality?
- thanatropism 9y ago
  The word "kernel" has a special meaning for operating systems.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    I understand that. What exactly do you want to change at the kernel level?
- hungerstrike 9y ago
  Pfffft. Yeah there's "nothing stopping you" except for everything. You can't get rid of the window manager, the Finder or the Dock. Heck, you can't even stop Finder from running in any supported way and even if you manage to, you can't replace Finder in every program to open or save files. You can't replace the Dock because Apple won't let you modify a private API for describing available screen space. Every Dock replacement has the same bug - windows end up behind the replacement dock when you maximize them. Even Microsoft gives you hooks to change things like the Taskbar, Explorer and so on where Apple gives you nothing.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    Quitting the Finder: https://www.howtogeek.com/259378/how-to-quit-the-finder-in-os-x/ https://www.howtogeek.com/259378/how-to-quit-the-finder-in-o... Run x11 on the Mac. https://www.xquartz.org/ https://www.xquartz.org/ I found the link from an Apple support page. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201341 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201341 The Finder isn't used to "save files". But alternate file managers... https://lifehacker.com/5824343/the-best-alternative-file-browser-for-mac https://lifehacker.com/5824343/the-best-alternative-file-bro...
    - hungerstrike 9y ago
      Yes thanks, that's what I was laughing about. You can attempt to run such a system, but since nobody does (and for good reason) all your tinkering will be in vain and you'll have a fairly useless system. Enjoy that! You can't actually tinker with the things that you want to use though, can you? Nope. Again, Microsofts offerings simply outclass Apple here - they've got hooks to let you modify just about every interface in Windows whereas with Apple you have to resort to basically re-building your entire OS for the right to tinker. Apples offerings are simply not tinker-friendly and everybody knows this, notwithstanding desperate attempts from the Apple-faithful to disagree. > The Finder isn't used to "save files". Yes it is. The GUI components for every "save file" operation in almost every existing Mac app are absolutely sourced from and tightly integrated with Finder.
      - scarface74 9y ago
        So I just showed you how you could do it with links and because "no one does it" that means it "can't be done". Have you thought that the reason "no one does it" is because most people don't want to muck with their systems and just want to get stuff done? You want to "tinker with the kernel" but you are complaining about modify a plist?
        hungerstrike 9y ago
        I didn't say that I wanted to tinker with the kernel. I want to tinker with the Finder, the Dock and the actual window manager that everybody uses, not XQuartz which nobody uses. You showed that in order to tinker with Apples stuff you have to completely replace Apples stuff. That's hilarious!

by zeveb 9y ago

scarface74 9y ago

The Window Manager - nothing stopping you from using XWindows. The Finder - it's just a file manager, what's stopping you from using any other file manager? Cocoa - is just a Framework for building Mac apps. Nothing stopping you from using another Framework Xcode - just an IDE on top of open source build tools. IMessage - just a messaging program. Nothing stopping you from using another messaging program. FaceTime - just video chat, nothing stopping you from using another video chat. So what part of the "kernel" are you trying to replace and to add what functionality?

thanatropism 9y ago
The word "kernel" has a special meaning for operating systems.
- scarface74 9y ago
  I understand that. What exactly do you want to change at the kernel level?
hungerstrike 9y ago
Pfffft. Yeah there's "nothing stopping you" except for everything. You can't get rid of the window manager, the Finder or the Dock. Heck, you can't even stop Finder from running in any supported way and even if you manage to, you can't replace Finder in every program to open or save files. You can't replace the Dock because Apple won't let you modify a private API for describing available screen space. Every Dock replacement has the same bug - windows end up behind the replacement dock when you maximize them. Even Microsoft gives you hooks to change things like the Taskbar, Explorer and so on where Apple gives you nothing.
- scarface74 9y ago
  Quitting the Finder: https://www.howtogeek.com/259378/how-to-quit-the-finder-in-os-x/ https://www.howtogeek.com/259378/how-to-quit-the-finder-in-o... Run x11 on the Mac. https://www.xquartz.org/ https://www.xquartz.org/ I found the link from an Apple support page. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201341 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201341 The Finder isn't used to "save files". But alternate file managers... https://lifehacker.com/5824343/the-best-alternative-file-browser-for-mac https://lifehacker.com/5824343/the-best-alternative-file-bro...
  - hungerstrike 9y ago
    Yes thanks, that's what I was laughing about. You can attempt to run such a system, but since nobody does (and for good reason) all your tinkering will be in vain and you'll have a fairly useless system. Enjoy that! You can't actually tinker with the things that you want to use though, can you? Nope. Again, Microsofts offerings simply outclass Apple here - they've got hooks to let you modify just about every interface in Windows whereas with Apple you have to resort to basically re-building your entire OS for the right to tinker. Apples offerings are simply not tinker-friendly and everybody knows this, notwithstanding desperate attempts from the Apple-faithful to disagree. > The Finder isn't used to "save files". Yes it is. The GUI components for every "save file" operation in almost every existing Mac app are absolutely sourced from and tightly integrated with Finder.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      So I just showed you how you could do it with links and because "no one does it" that means it "can't be done". Have you thought that the reason "no one does it" is because most people don't want to muck with their systems and just want to get stuff done? You want to "tinker with the kernel" but you are complaining about modify a plist?
      - hungerstrike 9y ago
        I didn't say that I wanted to tinker with the kernel. I want to tinker with the Finder, the Dock and the actual window manager that everybody uses, not XQuartz which nobody uses. You showed that in order to tinker with Apples stuff you have to completely replace Apples stuff. That's hilarious!