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XKCD on Docker

118 points by boffinism 8y ago

newscracker 8y ago
Someone needs to talk to Randall Munroe (author of xkcd) and update the explanation for this. [1] I’m not sure if the comic is taking a dig at those who use Docker or at Docker itself or both (in every case, putting together things they don’t understand well but claiming to have accomplished “enlightenment”). [1]: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1988 https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1988
- kelnos 8y ago
  My take is that it's not even really Docker-specific, but Docker users are a convenient example. There are plenty of programmers (Docker-using and otherwise) who just copy-paste code and glue together frameworks without really understanding what they're doing.
  - kakwa_ 8y ago
    CS is a magic blackbox and/or a magic cooking book for a lot of people in the industry.
  - secstate 8y ago
    My take is that most people don't know what the hell they're doing most of the time. We're all trying to figure it out. When I was 20 I was copy-pasting the hell out of Rails examples. By being curious and actively incorporating ideas I've come across I've begun (15 years later) to have opinions on things in software development. Am I ever going to be a kernel contributor, or figure out implement compiler optimizations? Unlikely. But I love my job and the people around me support my continued education (in docker and everything else). That's all you can ask for. I love xkcd, but you have to take it with a grain of salt. This comic was written by the same person who wrote this one: https://www.xkcd.com/1053/ https://www.xkcd.com/1053/
- zkomp 8y ago
  Well the Title is "Containers". Punchline is about writing software or glue together things you dont understand. The mention of that hyped and also hilariously buggy product seems relevant. See https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/01/docker-in-production-an-history-of-failure/ https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/01/docker-in-production-an-his... for a few years old example of this "gluing together things without understanding"
cs702 8y ago
Ouch. The punchline is funny because in many cases it's painfully true... especially in "enterprise" land. Don't forget to hover over the comic.
- azernik 8y ago
  On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, I think it's making the point that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, however aesthetically offensive it is. "Enlightenment" indeed.
  - thecrash 8y ago
    Exactly, I think the enlightenment in this case is being at peace with the idea that one cannot understand or fully manage everything in a technology stack. Success does not come from achieving total understanding, but from being able to cleverly pick and choose what to manage and what to leave as a black box based on the problem before you.
noxToken 8y ago
A mod may want to update the URL from the homepage to a permalink[0]. The next comic update will ruin this post. [0]: https://xkcd.com/1988/ https://xkcd.com/1988/
- dang 8y ago
  Done. Thanks!
ropeadopepope 8y ago
I remember when xkcd used to be funny.
- aeorgnoieang 8y ago
  Don't just leave us hanging! What's the last funny xkcd comic?
- optimuspaul 8y ago
  well good, your short term memory is in tact.
ohiovr 8y ago
Because I can install nextcloud in a single cli line. With out it I need about 9 scripts worth of stuff (example of what I wrote to do it) https://github.com/OhioVR/nextcloud_debian_install_scripts/tree/master/installation%20bash%20scripts https://github.com/OhioVR/nextcloud_debian_install_scripts/t... If you want to learn a whole software stack, building and administration to just TRY a program ONCE I won't stop you. But there are better ways like using docker.
- zeta0134 8y ago
  I use docker for my build system for this very reason, as my chain depends on a difficult to install Autodesk SDK, which requires a very specific version of Python. I don't expect it to work properly on most modern Linux distributions without virtualenv and other advanced trickery, and there's not even a chance on Windows. With Docker though, once I had the environment set up, unfamiliar newcomers on the three major platforms can then compile and run the project with minimal fuss. (Of course, in the future I'll be working to remove that odd dependency entirely, but for now, this works.) It helps that in my particular case, the build _target_ is an embedded platform, so I don't need to worry about native details in the final executable; hiding the environmental details in the container doesn't matter all that much.
  - xtrapolate 8y ago
    I'd personally just prepare a small VirtualBox image with everything required to build the code, and release that instead.
  - azernik 8y ago
    Me too - though for me the installation tools are fairly standard (SBT + npm), it's still like 10-ish steps. Docker's basically a vehicle for safely running apt-get in a script on all my developers' machines.

118 points by boffinism 8y ago

Someone needs to talk to Randall Munroe (author of xkcd) and update the explanation for this. [1] I’m not sure if the comic is taking a dig at those who use Docker or at Docker itself or both (in every case, putting together things they don’t understand well but claiming to have accomplished “enlightenment”). [1]: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1988 https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1988

kelnos 8y ago
My take is that it's not even really Docker-specific, but Docker users are a convenient example. There are plenty of programmers (Docker-using and otherwise) who just copy-paste code and glue together frameworks without really understanding what they're doing.
- kakwa_ 8y ago
  CS is a magic blackbox and/or a magic cooking book for a lot of people in the industry.
- secstate 8y ago
  My take is that most people don't know what the hell they're doing most of the time. We're all trying to figure it out. When I was 20 I was copy-pasting the hell out of Rails examples. By being curious and actively incorporating ideas I've come across I've begun (15 years later) to have opinions on things in software development. Am I ever going to be a kernel contributor, or figure out implement compiler optimizations? Unlikely. But I love my job and the people around me support my continued education (in docker and everything else). That's all you can ask for. I love xkcd, but you have to take it with a grain of salt. This comic was written by the same person who wrote this one: https://www.xkcd.com/1053/ https://www.xkcd.com/1053/
zkomp 8y ago
Well the Title is "Containers". Punchline is about writing software or glue together things you dont understand. The mention of that hyped and also hilariously buggy product seems relevant. See https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/01/docker-in-production-an-history-of-failure/ https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/01/docker-in-production-an-his... for a few years old example of this "gluing together things without understanding"

cs702 8y ago

Ouch. The punchline is funny because in many cases it's painfully true... especially in "enterprise" land. Don't forget to hover over the comic.

azernik 8y ago
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, I think it's making the point that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, however aesthetically offensive it is. "Enlightenment" indeed.
- thecrash 8y ago
  Exactly, I think the enlightenment in this case is being at peace with the idea that one cannot understand or fully manage everything in a technology stack. Success does not come from achieving total understanding, but from being able to cleverly pick and choose what to manage and what to leave as a black box based on the problem before you.

noxToken 8y ago

A mod may want to update the URL from the homepage to a permalink[0]. The next comic update will ruin this post. [0]: https://xkcd.com/1988/ https://xkcd.com/1988/

dang 8y ago
Done. Thanks!

ropeadopepope 8y ago

I remember when xkcd used to be funny.

aeorgnoieang 8y ago
Don't just leave us hanging! What's the last funny xkcd comic?
optimuspaul 8y ago
well good, your short term memory is in tact.

ohiovr 8y ago

Because I can install nextcloud in a single cli line. With out it I need about 9 scripts worth of stuff (example of what I wrote to do it) https://github.com/OhioVR/nextcloud_debian_install_scripts/tree/master/installation%20bash%20scripts https://github.com/OhioVR/nextcloud_debian_install_scripts/t... If you want to learn a whole software stack, building and administration to just TRY a program ONCE I won't stop you. But there are better ways like using docker.

zeta0134 8y ago
I use docker for my build system for this very reason, as my chain depends on a difficult to install Autodesk SDK, which requires a very specific version of Python. I don't expect it to work properly on most modern Linux distributions without virtualenv and other advanced trickery, and there's not even a chance on Windows. With Docker though, once I had the environment set up, unfamiliar newcomers on the three major platforms can then compile and run the project with minimal fuss. (Of course, in the future I'll be working to remove that odd dependency entirely, but for now, this works.) It helps that in my particular case, the build _target_ is an embedded platform, so I don't need to worry about native details in the final executable; hiding the environmental details in the container doesn't matter all that much.
- xtrapolate 8y ago
  I'd personally just prepare a small VirtualBox image with everything required to build the code, and release that instead.
- azernik 8y ago
  Me too - though for me the installation tools are fairly standard (SBT + npm), it's still like 10-ish steps. Docker's basically a vehicle for safely running apt-get in a script on all my developers' machines.