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Skeptic's questions: 1. How many are aware that Britain's NHS, if run as well as Spain's healthcare system, would kill 10,000 fewer patients each year due to

Skeptic's questions: 1. How many are aware that Britain's NHS, if run as well as Spain's healthcare system, would kill 10,000 fewer patients each year due to better treatment? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-world-ranking-uk-healthcare-worse-ireland-spain-slovenia-30th-lancet-a7744131.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-world-ranking-... and http://www.cityam.com/270171/nhs-world-class-if-you-ignore-its-woeful-outcomes http://www.cityam.com/270171/nhs-world-class-if-you-ignore-i... (3rd to last paragraph) 2. I can get an MRI in the USA within 3-5 days (sometimes next day), virtually anywhere in the country. Canada (universal health care) wait times to receive MRI(self-reported by the government): over 90 days in some cases. In the richest and most populous province of Ontario, only 41% of patients got scanned within the targeted time: http://www.hqontario.ca/System-Performance/Wait-Times-for-Diagnostic-Imaging?utm_source=Ontario.ca&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=WT%20Referral http://www.hqontario.ca/System-Performance/Wait-Times-for-Di... (you might have to select Adult MRI instead of the default Adult CT) If you were diagnosed with a possible brain tumor/cancer requiring an MRI to confirm, would the 50 to 90-day difference in MRI and diagnosis result in a measurable difference in outcome, if you did in fact have a tumor?

curtis 8y ago
> If you were diagnosed with a possible brain tumor/cancer requiring an MRI to confirm, would the 50 to 90-day difference in MRI and diagnosis result in a measurable difference in outcome, if you did in fact have a tumor? I would assume in a case like this that they'd move you to the front of the MRI line.
beagle3 8y ago
> 2. I can get an MRI in the USA within 3-5 days (sometimes next day), virtually anywhere in the country. AFAIK you can do that anywhere in Europe as well, provided that you pay out of pocket, or that you have purchased extra coverage to do that -- the cost of which is usually a fraction of similar coverage in the US. (Also AFAIK, you weren't able to pay out of pocket in Canada for that 20 years ago - I don't know if that has changed). > If you were diagnosed with a possible brain tumor/cancer requiring an MRI to confirm, would the 50 to 90-day difference in MRI and diagnosis result in a measurable difference in outcome, if you did in fact have a tumor? The 50-90 days number quoted is, AFAIK, related to non-urgent things. I know two people who got it within 24 hours when there was suspicion of a tumor.
guitarbill 8y ago
> 2. I can get an MRI in the USA within 3-5 days (sometimes next day), virtually anywhere in the country. Not if you don't have insurance, like a few million Americans. But fuck those guys, right? At least my MRI is fast!
- lainga 8y ago
  You have a few percent of the overall American population waiting vs. 41% of Ontario.
  - guitarbill 8y ago
    No, 41% of patients of Ontario who needed an MRI, which is a small subset of the population. Meanwhile in 2016 you had 28 million Americans under 65, that's 10.4% uninsured [0]. I'm sure 10% less people would cut the waiting lines in Ontario a bit. So yeah, fuck those 28 million, they're not rich, let them suffer if they get ill! [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/health-insurance.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/health-insurance.htm
- patrickg_zill 8y ago
  (this is 2009 timeframe) When I had an abdominal CT scan in the USA, I paid cash for it. $262 on my VISA card, paid at time of service. If I'd had insurance with 90% paid, I would have ended up paying about 10% of $2K, because that is the "retail" price and a typical policy at that time covered 80-90% of the "costs". Plus I would have had to pay into the insurance scam for several months to have had coverage. I'm not really sure that you know what you are talking about...
skrause 8y ago
> 2. I can get an MRI in the USA within 3-5 days (sometimes next day), virtually anywhere in the country. You can get that in Germany as well and don't even have to pay anything for it. And I'm speaking out of experience because my girlfriend was diagnosed with a brain tumor: If you have sudden symptoms (like a seizure in her case) or a threating disease you basically get all appointments within 2-3 days. So far her total co-payment for 18 months of treatment, 3 hospital stays with surgeries, about 10 MRIs, radiation and chemo therapy and daily medicacion is about $300. And since she can't work at the moment because of her illness she gets a monthly payment ("Krankengeld") by the public health insurance which is about 90% of her last after-tax salary and lasts for 78 weeks. Since you already have to worry enough about your illness you shouldn't have to worry about money as well. I'm so glad that we don't live in the USA.

curtis 8y ago

> If you were diagnosed with a possible brain tumor/cancer requiring an MRI to confirm, would the 50 to 90-day difference in MRI and diagnosis result in a measurable difference in outcome, if you did in fact have a tumor? I would assume in a case like this that they'd move you to the front of the MRI line.

beagle3 8y ago

> 2. I can get an MRI in the USA within 3-5 days (sometimes next day), virtually anywhere in the country. AFAIK you can do that anywhere in Europe as well, provided that you pay out of pocket, or that you have purchased extra coverage to do that -- the cost of which is usually a fraction of similar coverage in the US. (Also AFAIK, you weren't able to pay out of pocket in Canada for that 20 years ago - I don't know if that has changed). > If you were diagnosed with a possible brain tumor/cancer requiring an MRI to confirm, would the 50 to 90-day difference in MRI and diagnosis result in a measurable difference in outcome, if you did in fact have a tumor? The 50-90 days number quoted is, AFAIK, related to non-urgent things. I know two people who got it within 24 hours when there was suspicion of a tumor.

guitarbill 8y ago

> 2. I can get an MRI in the USA within 3-5 days (sometimes next day), virtually anywhere in the country. Not if you don't have insurance, like a few million Americans. But fuck those guys, right? At least my MRI is fast!

lainga 8y ago
You have a few percent of the overall American population waiting vs. 41% of Ontario.
- guitarbill 8y ago
  No, 41% of patients of Ontario who needed an MRI, which is a small subset of the population. Meanwhile in 2016 you had 28 million Americans under 65, that's 10.4% uninsured [0]. I'm sure 10% less people would cut the waiting lines in Ontario a bit. So yeah, fuck those 28 million, they're not rich, let them suffer if they get ill! [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/health-insurance.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/health-insurance.htm
patrickg_zill 8y ago
(this is 2009 timeframe) When I had an abdominal CT scan in the USA, I paid cash for it. $262 on my VISA card, paid at time of service. If I'd had insurance with 90% paid, I would have ended up paying about 10% of $2K, because that is the "retail" price and a typical policy at that time covered 80-90% of the "costs". Plus I would have had to pay into the insurance scam for several months to have had coverage. I'm not really sure that you know what you are talking about...

skrause 8y ago

> 2. I can get an MRI in the USA within 3-5 days (sometimes next day), virtually anywhere in the country. You can get that in Germany as well and don't even have to pay anything for it. And I'm speaking out of experience because my girlfriend was diagnosed with a brain tumor: If you have sudden symptoms (like a seizure in her case) or a threating disease you basically get all appointments within 2-3 days. So far her total co-payment for 18 months of treatment, 3 hospital stays with surgeries, about 10 MRIs, radiation and chemo therapy and daily medicacion is about $300. And since she can't work at the moment because of her illness she gets a monthly payment ("Krankengeld") by the public health insurance which is about 90% of her last after-tax salary and lasts for 78 weeks. Since you already have to worry enough about your illness you shouldn't have to worry about money as well. I'm so glad that we don't live in the USA.