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I'm very fond of Apple's business stance; my concern is not with it, but with their technological stance. Apple products are built on lock-in; they are proprie

by zeveb 9y ago

I'm very fond of Apple's business stance; my concern is not with it, but with their technological stance. Apple products are built on lock-in; they are proprietary and closed, not open. Frankly, at this point they're not even really all that good (in fact, sometimes embarrassingly bad — something not limited to Apple!). I want the freedom to tinker, the freedom to review, the freedom to extend. That's why I use Linux.

airstrike 9y ago
I'd settle for iMessage and FaceTime being open...
- erikpukinskis 9y ago
  I’d settle for Apple allowing you to stay in your group texts after you deactivate iMessage.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- pwinnski 9y ago
  In the case of FaceTime, it's VirnetX that's to blame. Apple's pledge to open-source it ran hard into a lawsuit from VirnetX that required Apple to redesign and still currently has them paying $439M to VirnetX for patent infringement.
zer00eyz 9y ago
If you go dig into my comment history I have several comments where I praise Richard Stalman and his commitment to open source. He is the zealot (and I use that word with both positive and negative connotations) that open source needs. But I have to ask what ARE you running then? Intel? AMD? What about your phone? If your going to make this argument in this way you better have a Stalman like response. If you are running closed source in your stack then your argument is selective.
- wilsonnb 9y ago
  Everyone is running closed source somewhere, even Stallman. He says in his web page describing how he does his computing that he uses credit cards sometimes, uses closed source software running on public computers that he doesn't use often, and doesn't consider anything that doesn't regularly update it's software a computer. You might be in favor of Stallman's compromises but he has a selective argument just like everyone else.
scarface74 9y ago
Locked and closed compared to what? What makes Android what it is to most people is a bunch of closed sourced Google Services and a bunch of closed sourced binary drivers. That are so closed that not even Google was able to upgrade some of their Nexus devices because they were dependent on closed source drivers.
- hungerstrike 9y ago
  > Locked and closed compared to what? Did you miss the part where Linux was mentioned as the preferred tinkerers OS? This isn't about Android vs iPhone, it's about freedom vs no freedom.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X - a certified Unix operating system?
    - zeveb 9y ago
      > So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X - The kernel (yes, there's Darwin — I don't believe it's possible to replace a working macOS kernel with my own build) - The window manager - The Finder - Cocoa - Safari - XCode (although I believe some components are open source) - iMessage - Facetime
      - scarface74 9y ago
        The Window Manager - nothing stopping you from using XWindows. The Finder - it's just a file manager, what's stopping you from using any other file manager? Cocoa - is just a Framework for building Mac apps. Nothing stopping you from using another Framework Xcode - just an IDE on top of open source build tools. IMessage - just a messaging program. Nothing stopping you from using another messaging program. FaceTime - just video chat, nothing stopping you from using another video chat. So what part of the "kernel" are you trying to replace and to add what functionality?

by zeveb 9y ago

airstrike 9y ago

I'd settle for iMessage and FaceTime being open...

erikpukinskis 9y ago
I’d settle for Apple allowing you to stay in your group texts after you deactivate iMessage.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
pwinnski 9y ago
In the case of FaceTime, it's VirnetX that's to blame. Apple's pledge to open-source it ran hard into a lawsuit from VirnetX that required Apple to redesign and still currently has them paying $439M to VirnetX for patent infringement.

zer00eyz 9y ago

If you go dig into my comment history I have several comments where I praise Richard Stalman and his commitment to open source. He is the zealot (and I use that word with both positive and negative connotations) that open source needs. But I have to ask what ARE you running then? Intel? AMD? What about your phone? If your going to make this argument in this way you better have a Stalman like response. If you are running closed source in your stack then your argument is selective.

wilsonnb 9y ago
Everyone is running closed source somewhere, even Stallman. He says in his web page describing how he does his computing that he uses credit cards sometimes, uses closed source software running on public computers that he doesn't use often, and doesn't consider anything that doesn't regularly update it's software a computer. You might be in favor of Stallman's compromises but he has a selective argument just like everyone else.

scarface74 9y ago

Locked and closed compared to what? What makes Android what it is to most people is a bunch of closed sourced Google Services and a bunch of closed sourced binary drivers. That are so closed that not even Google was able to upgrade some of their Nexus devices because they were dependent on closed source drivers.

hungerstrike 9y ago
> Locked and closed compared to what? Did you miss the part where Linux was mentioned as the preferred tinkerers OS? This isn't about Android vs iPhone, it's about freedom vs no freedom.
- scarface74 9y ago
  So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X - a certified Unix operating system?
  - zeveb 9y ago
    > So what can't you "tinker" with that you would like on OS X - The kernel (yes, there's Darwin — I don't believe it's possible to replace a working macOS kernel with my own build) - The window manager - The Finder - Cocoa - Safari - XCode (although I believe some components are open source) - iMessage - Facetime
    - scarface74 9y ago
      The Window Manager - nothing stopping you from using XWindows. The Finder - it's just a file manager, what's stopping you from using any other file manager? Cocoa - is just a Framework for building Mac apps. Nothing stopping you from using another Framework Xcode - just an IDE on top of open source build tools. IMessage - just a messaging program. Nothing stopping you from using another messaging program. FaceTime - just video chat, nothing stopping you from using another video chat. So what part of the "kernel" are you trying to replace and to add what functionality?