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Trump had made it pretty clear he was against the Iraq war, and plans on closing military bases overseas to reduce military costs. Keeping our military in Euro

Trump had made it pretty clear he was against the Iraq war, and plans on closing military bases overseas to reduce military costs. Keeping our military in European bases certainly does cost the United States significant resources to counter the Russian threat to Europe. While NATO countries don't pay their fair share of costs of maintaining their security, the United States has to pay the balance. If European countries actually spent what they ought to, they absolutely would have less money to spend on their welfare systems.

gambiting 8y ago
>>While NATO countries don't pay their fair share of costs of maintaining their security, the United States has to pay the balance. The counterpoint here is that US keeps American bases in Europe because US wants to keep their bases here and it serves their interests first and foremost, any defensive goals are secondary, if not tertiary. All Nato nations could contribute exactly ZERO to the budget and US would still be getting the best deal out of everyone here.
- assblaster 8y ago
  Their interests are to prevent Russia from invading Europe. Clearly every non Russian European country has an interest in that as well. The US could clearly exit NATO to save some (a lot) money. How is paying for someone else's defense a good deal for America?
  - gambiting 8y ago
    I mean, if US wants to tell itself that it's protecting Europe from Russia, then sure, whatever they need to sleep well at night. I, as a European citizen, don't believe that for one second. >>How is paying for someone else's defense a good deal for America? Just get rid of the notion that America is "paying for someone else's defense" and it should become clearer - US currently has a complete military hegemony worldwide, and you can't maintain it without having forward bases all over the globe - countries inr Europe provide space for these bases, sometimes willingly, mostly over promises of things that have never materialized. In a lot of cases I think it's clear that the presence and actions of American forces around those bases are antagonizing Russia - at which point I'm not asking myself "why is Russia upset" but "wtf are the Americans doing". I have zero faith that in case of any conflict with Russia, US would come to our help or even prioritise us on the list of locations to defend - I'd much rather rely on our neighbours for help than a country literally on the other side of the planet whose interests don't necessarily align with ours.

gambiting 8y ago

>>While NATO countries don't pay their fair share of costs of maintaining their security, the United States has to pay the balance. The counterpoint here is that US keeps American bases in Europe because US wants to keep their bases here and it serves their interests first and foremost, any defensive goals are secondary, if not tertiary. All Nato nations could contribute exactly ZERO to the budget and US would still be getting the best deal out of everyone here.

assblaster 8y ago
Their interests are to prevent Russia from invading Europe. Clearly every non Russian European country has an interest in that as well. The US could clearly exit NATO to save some (a lot) money. How is paying for someone else's defense a good deal for America?
- gambiting 8y ago
  I mean, if US wants to tell itself that it's protecting Europe from Russia, then sure, whatever they need to sleep well at night. I, as a European citizen, don't believe that for one second. >>How is paying for someone else's defense a good deal for America? Just get rid of the notion that America is "paying for someone else's defense" and it should become clearer - US currently has a complete military hegemony worldwide, and you can't maintain it without having forward bases all over the globe - countries inr Europe provide space for these bases, sometimes willingly, mostly over promises of things that have never materialized. In a lot of cases I think it's clear that the presence and actions of American forces around those bases are antagonizing Russia - at which point I'm not asking myself "why is Russia upset" but "wtf are the Americans doing". I have zero faith that in case of any conflict with Russia, US would come to our help or even prioritise us on the list of locations to defend - I'd much rather rely on our neighbours for help than a country literally on the other side of the planet whose interests don't necessarily align with ours.