4 ms·

Just going to throw this out there. Non universal health care is analogous to half the roads in a city being toll roads. Society can still function and you ca

Just going to throw this out there. Non universal health care is analogous to half the roads in a city being toll roads. Society can still function and you can mostly get to where you're going but it's not close to efficient.

merpnderp 8y ago
Why are toll roads not close to efficient? In my state the toll roads are by far the nicest best maintained roads and the tolls are extremely reasonable and collected without having to slow down or stop at a booth.
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  Who collects the tolls? Is it a private company or a government body with motive different than maximum profit? For example in Poland we got the most expensive toll motorways in Europe because a private company owns them and continues to demands exorbitant prices for passage with nobody to stop it.
  - kodablah 8y ago
    > Who collects the tolls? Is it a private company or a government body with motive different than maximum profit? Private company with motive different than maximum profit. Motive: not to get subsumed and punished by the government allowing them to do this...then second motive is maximum profit. That primary motive one is an important one in all of these non-competitive industries, and can't even have a private vs public discussion without including it. Otherwise, it's just corruption/apathy and it's a different problem.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Try having tolls on local streets with ownership changing every couple of blocks.
- Balero 8y ago
  They work for highway, bridges etc. I think OP was suggesting something like every road in a city being a toll road, with a different toll per road. How much infrastructure would be needed to make this drivable, get the different road owners their money, make sure that each road owner is maintaining it. Better to have these huge number of interconnected roads maintained by one group responsible for them.
- malyk 8y ago
  Imagine your city is a grid...N/S streets are numbered, E/W streets are lettered. Toll roads wouldn't be efficient if 5th-18th ave are toll roads (operated by multiple companies/agencies) and then Fst-Hst and Ost-Xst were also toll roads. You'd never be able to get across the city.
  - F_r_k 8y ago
    Except if you have interoperability laws in effect (like in Switzerland you can take a bus, a boat, or a train with the same ticket, yet they are different companies).
the1pato 8y ago
This isn't a great analogy. Many anti-sprawl urban planners actually say this is exactly what we should be doing to encourage more efficient (denser, more urban) development.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  I guess it does work in that it makes society more efficient by doing it's best to get rid of the health sprawl - the sickly, poor, and old.
kalleboo 8y ago
Interestingly I live in a country (Japan) where all the highways are privatized and made into toll roads. Driving 3 hours to the next big city over costs nearly as much in gas+tolls as taking the high-speed rail (which takes half the time). To me for transport making costs transparent actually makes things more efficient. We still have universal healthcare though.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  Also in Japan here. Healthcare definitely has issues here but overall positive for the entire nation. I was at first shocked by tolled highways everywhere but id you think about it it’s actually a brilliant move to encourage more rail transport which works out for everyone.

merpnderp 8y ago

Why are toll roads not close to efficient? In my state the toll roads are by far the nicest best maintained roads and the tolls are extremely reasonable and collected without having to slow down or stop at a booth.

AstralStorm 8y ago
Who collects the tolls? Is it a private company or a government body with motive different than maximum profit? For example in Poland we got the most expensive toll motorways in Europe because a private company owns them and continues to demands exorbitant prices for passage with nobody to stop it.
- kodablah 8y ago
  > Who collects the tolls? Is it a private company or a government body with motive different than maximum profit? Private company with motive different than maximum profit. Motive: not to get subsumed and punished by the government allowing them to do this...then second motive is maximum profit. That primary motive one is an important one in all of these non-competitive industries, and can't even have a private vs public discussion without including it. Otherwise, it's just corruption/apathy and it's a different problem.
mikeash 8y ago
Try having tolls on local streets with ownership changing every couple of blocks.
Balero 8y ago
They work for highway, bridges etc. I think OP was suggesting something like every road in a city being a toll road, with a different toll per road. How much infrastructure would be needed to make this drivable, get the different road owners their money, make sure that each road owner is maintaining it. Better to have these huge number of interconnected roads maintained by one group responsible for them.
malyk 8y ago
Imagine your city is a grid...N/S streets are numbered, E/W streets are lettered. Toll roads wouldn't be efficient if 5th-18th ave are toll roads (operated by multiple companies/agencies) and then Fst-Hst and Ost-Xst were also toll roads. You'd never be able to get across the city.
- F_r_k 8y ago
  Except if you have interoperability laws in effect (like in Switzerland you can take a bus, a boat, or a train with the same ticket, yet they are different companies).

the1pato 8y ago

This isn't a great analogy. Many anti-sprawl urban planners actually say this is exactly what we should be doing to encourage more efficient (denser, more urban) development.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
I guess it does work in that it makes society more efficient by doing it's best to get rid of the health sprawl - the sickly, poor, and old.

kalleboo 8y ago

Interestingly I live in a country (Japan) where all the highways are privatized and made into toll roads. Driving 3 hours to the next big city over costs nearly as much in gas+tolls as taking the high-speed rail (which takes half the time). To me for transport making costs transparent actually makes things more efficient. We still have universal healthcare though.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
Also in Japan here. Healthcare definitely has issues here but overall positive for the entire nation. I was at first shocked by tolled highways everywhere but id you think about it it’s actually a brilliant move to encourage more rail transport which works out for everyone.