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I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a d

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital visits with 3 treatments so far. I'm flabbergasted when I talk to American friends and family and they all seem to think two things: 1. Canadian health care "is terrible, people die waiting in emergency rooms" 2. The US system is by far the best and that's why it's so expensive

mfoy_ 9y ago
You forgot: 3. Canadians pay for their health care in tax, anyways. (However: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadian...)
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  There's still 5% of the US budget being spent on health care: https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/trumpdiscpie_large.png https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/trumpdiscpie_la... Of course, over ten times as much is spent on the military. How can a country with no enemies nearby justify spending 60% of their budget on the military? Especially given how the only ones hostile to them are the ones they pissed off.
  - castlecrasher2 9y ago
    That budget doesn't include SSI or Medicare
- seymour333 9y ago
  You forgot: 3. This is actually a good thing, because we get health care when we need it and aren't exposed to crippling debt? (your system entirely indefensible from every possible view point)
  - refurb 9y ago
    aren't exposed to crippling debt Whoa there. My family has a good friend whose child was born with a severe genetic disease in Canada. They are paying a ton out of pocket for care for their child since the gov't doesn't pay (night nurse, some physiotherapy). Both parents are having to work full time just to pay the medical bills. For your average Canadian everything gets paid for, but if you have special needs, you're sometimes on the hook big time.
    - malnourish 9y ago
      While unfortunate for them (and their child!) that's still a better situation than being in the US.
      - refurb 9y ago
        If they were in the US and gainfully employed, a lot of that extra care would be covered by their medical insurance. Of course, if they lost their job they'd be SOL.
        ryandrake 9y ago
        Maybe, maybe not. Medical bankruptcies also happen to people fully insured.
    - seymour333 9y ago
      I think you're using an outlier to compare to an entire population, the argument doesn't really hold up. (indeed, it's unfortunate for your friend and I'm sorry that they're in that situation) For the average person though (which, when we talk about American healthcare, is largely who we are discussing), and a for the majority of the population, things work out very differently. Myself and the members of my family have had countless hospital stays, ER visits, surgeries, checkups, ambulance rides (approx $300 flat fee), assessments, scans and x-rays. All without any of us carrying any debt or dealing with any related financial hardship (lower tax bracket, so no special benefit plans or anything). Friend's kid's appendix needed removal, multiple night stay at the hospital. No cost. What does that look like in America? I had a deviated septum and didn't breath great. I breath just fine now after my totally covered septoplasty. What does that look like in America? Kids recently got strep throat and needed a doctors appointment to get a prescription for antibiotics ($42 to cover the prescription) What does that look like in America? (honestly I'm curious about this one, would it be more than a couple hundred dollars for that?) edit (spelling)
- ahoy 9y ago
  You forgot: 4. Americans pay for health insurance through private companies, anyway. And then they still don't get the care they need.
  - mfoy_ 9y ago
    The list was "common argument by American's against the Canadian system", so why would they argue what you are saying?
- gsnedders 9y ago
  And Americans pay more per-capita for federal-funded healthcare than Canadians do… just the Canadians get universal coverage for it. The US manages to spend as much public money on healthcare as most other western countries do, and gets much less for it.
  - slantedview 9y ago
    Interestingly, America could fund a Canadian style healthcare system, covering everyone, using _just_ the existing federal healthcare spending (around 2 trillion), completely eliminating the need for private sector spending on healthcare (around 1 trillion). No need to raise taxes. Employers and individuals save a ton of money. The economy strengthens and everyone in the country gets coverage. As always, that we don't have healthcare for everyone is a political problem, not a spending problem.
- icebraining 9y ago
  "In 2004, Canada government-spending was $2,120 (in US dollars) per person, while the United States government-spending $2,724." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States#Price_of_health_care_and_administration_overheads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_s...
jhall1468 9y ago
Dying while waiting is just a stupid argument based on a distant truth. You do wait considerably longer for non-life threatening procedures in Canada than you do in the US. That's the big sell of a medical system that cost 2 to 3 times yours. Hair transplants require less waiting.
JacobJans 9y ago
I know a Canadian who had a retina detach while in the States. She went to a Dr. in the states. They determined she needed surgery immediately. Unfortunately, the local hospital would not let her have the surgery. Why? The billing department was closed for the weekend. She offered to pay cash. Still, the answer was no. The surgery was delayed for 3 days. In that time, she her situation severely worsened, causing permanent damage that would have been prevented by surgery. She immediately made an emergency trip the Vancouver -- and was treated the same day, surgery and everything. No cost.
- gm-conspiracy 9y ago
  As a US citizen, how is that not a lawsuit?
  - kamaal 9y ago
    As a non US citizen, saving your eye sight is more important than losing it for an opportunity to sue?
    - gm-conspiracy 9y ago
      No, I am saying, what happened to her, she has a right to sue. Basically, she would be compensated, and it would serve as a deterrent to our US hospital system to not behave as poorly. I would even argue it is discrimination based on nationality.
      - kamaal 9y ago
        >>it would serve as a deterrent to our US hospital system Basically it won't be a deterrent to anything. They will just charge patients extra to pay for malpractice insurance.
gnode 9y ago
> my green OHIP card was all I needed In the UK, the entitlement is even more ubiquitous and fluid. I was diagnosed by my GP, referred to hospital and undergoing surgery under general anaesthetic, in half a day, without showing any form of ID.
- falsedan 9y ago
  This freaked me out, especailly when the admitting nurse couldn't match us to our GP's practice: "don't worry, we'll sort it out eventually, enjoy the rest of your night!"
- DanBC 9y ago
  > without showing any form of ID. That's changing a bit under the hostile environment. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overs...
  - tialaramex 9y ago
    Only if you don't look like you belong. Classic hidden privilege. As a tall middle-aged white guy, I go wherever I want, nobody asks to see any ID, nobody checks why I'm there. If they need to interact with me they start by apologising "I'm sorry sir". Hospitals, government departments, everywhere I go I look like I'm supposed to be there. But behave the exact same way as a 5'6" black teenager and you'll get stopped and questioned constantly.
    - true_religion 9y ago
      Former 5 foot 7 black teenager here, never got stopped. Never got questioned. Never had a single incidence of racism placed on me. Can't say that I know anyone who has had issues in my area either. Looking like you belong has a lot more to do with your attitude than your race.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
usefulcat 9y ago
> 2. The US system is by far the best and that's why it's so expensive Cognitive dissonance and/or Stockholm syndrome?
- cavanasm 9y ago
  Cognitive dissonance associated with politics in some cases, and probably just ignorance and an assumption that there's some amount of fairness and reasonability behind pricing in other cases?
- assblaster 9y ago
  The United States is the only country in the Western/European first-world where rationing of healthcare does not happen as a result of direct government mandate. There is still rationing in the United States, but it's covert.

mfoy_ 9y ago

You forgot: 3. Canadians pay for their health care in tax, anyways. (However: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadian...)

Cthulhu_ 9y ago
There's still 5% of the US budget being spent on health care: https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/trumpdiscpie_large.png https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/trumpdiscpie_la... Of course, over ten times as much is spent on the military. How can a country with no enemies nearby justify spending 60% of their budget on the military? Especially given how the only ones hostile to them are the ones they pissed off.
- castlecrasher2 9y ago
  That budget doesn't include SSI or Medicare
seymour333 9y ago
You forgot: 3. This is actually a good thing, because we get health care when we need it and aren't exposed to crippling debt? (your system entirely indefensible from every possible view point)
- refurb 9y ago
  aren't exposed to crippling debt Whoa there. My family has a good friend whose child was born with a severe genetic disease in Canada. They are paying a ton out of pocket for care for their child since the gov't doesn't pay (night nurse, some physiotherapy). Both parents are having to work full time just to pay the medical bills. For your average Canadian everything gets paid for, but if you have special needs, you're sometimes on the hook big time.
  - malnourish 9y ago
    While unfortunate for them (and their child!) that's still a better situation than being in the US.
    - refurb 9y ago
      If they were in the US and gainfully employed, a lot of that extra care would be covered by their medical insurance. Of course, if they lost their job they'd be SOL.
      - ryandrake 9y ago
        Maybe, maybe not. Medical bankruptcies also happen to people fully insured.
  - seymour333 9y ago
    I think you're using an outlier to compare to an entire population, the argument doesn't really hold up. (indeed, it's unfortunate for your friend and I'm sorry that they're in that situation) For the average person though (which, when we talk about American healthcare, is largely who we are discussing), and a for the majority of the population, things work out very differently. Myself and the members of my family have had countless hospital stays, ER visits, surgeries, checkups, ambulance rides (approx $300 flat fee), assessments, scans and x-rays. All without any of us carrying any debt or dealing with any related financial hardship (lower tax bracket, so no special benefit plans or anything). Friend's kid's appendix needed removal, multiple night stay at the hospital. No cost. What does that look like in America? I had a deviated septum and didn't breath great. I breath just fine now after my totally covered septoplasty. What does that look like in America? Kids recently got strep throat and needed a doctors appointment to get a prescription for antibiotics ($42 to cover the prescription) What does that look like in America? (honestly I'm curious about this one, would it be more than a couple hundred dollars for that?) edit (spelling)
ahoy 9y ago
You forgot: 4. Americans pay for health insurance through private companies, anyway. And then they still don't get the care they need.
- mfoy_ 9y ago
  The list was "common argument by American's against the Canadian system", so why would they argue what you are saying?
gsnedders 9y ago
And Americans pay more per-capita for federal-funded healthcare than Canadians do… just the Canadians get universal coverage for it. The US manages to spend as much public money on healthcare as most other western countries do, and gets much less for it.
- slantedview 9y ago
  Interestingly, America could fund a Canadian style healthcare system, covering everyone, using _just_ the existing federal healthcare spending (around 2 trillion), completely eliminating the need for private sector spending on healthcare (around 1 trillion). No need to raise taxes. Employers and individuals save a ton of money. The economy strengthens and everyone in the country gets coverage. As always, that we don't have healthcare for everyone is a political problem, not a spending problem.
icebraining 9y ago
"In 2004, Canada government-spending was $2,120 (in US dollars) per person, while the United States government-spending $2,724." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States#Price_of_health_care_and_administration_overheads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_s...

jhall1468 9y ago

Dying while waiting is just a stupid argument based on a distant truth. You do wait considerably longer for non-life threatening procedures in Canada than you do in the US. That's the big sell of a medical system that cost 2 to 3 times yours. Hair transplants require less waiting.

JacobJans 9y ago

I know a Canadian who had a retina detach while in the States. She went to a Dr. in the states. They determined she needed surgery immediately. Unfortunately, the local hospital would not let her have the surgery. Why? The billing department was closed for the weekend. She offered to pay cash. Still, the answer was no. The surgery was delayed for 3 days. In that time, she her situation severely worsened, causing permanent damage that would have been prevented by surgery. She immediately made an emergency trip the Vancouver -- and was treated the same day, surgery and everything. No cost.

gm-conspiracy 9y ago
As a US citizen, how is that not a lawsuit?
- kamaal 9y ago
  As a non US citizen, saving your eye sight is more important than losing it for an opportunity to sue?
  - gm-conspiracy 9y ago
    No, I am saying, what happened to her, she has a right to sue. Basically, she would be compensated, and it would serve as a deterrent to our US hospital system to not behave as poorly. I would even argue it is discrimination based on nationality.
    - kamaal 9y ago
      >>it would serve as a deterrent to our US hospital system Basically it won't be a deterrent to anything. They will just charge patients extra to pay for malpractice insurance.

gnode 9y ago

> my green OHIP card was all I needed In the UK, the entitlement is even more ubiquitous and fluid. I was diagnosed by my GP, referred to hospital and undergoing surgery under general anaesthetic, in half a day, without showing any form of ID.

falsedan 9y ago
This freaked me out, especailly when the admitting nurse couldn't match us to our GP's practice: "don't worry, we'll sort it out eventually, enjoy the rest of your night!"
DanBC 9y ago
> without showing any form of ID. That's changing a bit under the hostile environment. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overs...
- tialaramex 9y ago
  Only if you don't look like you belong. Classic hidden privilege. As a tall middle-aged white guy, I go wherever I want, nobody asks to see any ID, nobody checks why I'm there. If they need to interact with me they start by apologising "I'm sorry sir". Hospitals, government departments, everywhere I go I look like I'm supposed to be there. But behave the exact same way as a 5'6" black teenager and you'll get stopped and questioned constantly.
  - true_religion 9y ago
    Former 5 foot 7 black teenager here, never got stopped. Never got questioned. Never had a single incidence of racism placed on me. Can't say that I know anyone who has had issues in my area either. Looking like you belong has a lot more to do with your attitude than your race.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

usefulcat 9y ago

> 2. The US system is by far the best and that's why it's so expensive Cognitive dissonance and/or Stockholm syndrome?

cavanasm 9y ago
Cognitive dissonance associated with politics in some cases, and probably just ignorance and an assumption that there's some amount of fairness and reasonability behind pricing in other cases?
assblaster 9y ago
The United States is the only country in the Western/European first-world where rationing of healthcare does not happen as a result of direct government mandate. There is still rationing in the United States, but it's covert.