5 ms·

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high de

by nickjj 9y ago

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario. Meanwhile they are still losing ~40% of their income to taxes if they own a small business with no insurance applied. The messed up thing is, the US also offers "catastrophic" insurance for about $150 / month but they only allow people under the age of 30 to apply for it. But at the same time I'm pretty sure hospitals are forced by law to perform emergency surgery on you regardless of whether or not you have insurance (don't quote me on this). In 2017 I had to spend thousands of dollars in tax penalties for not having insurance. Welcome to the US!

chapium 9y ago
“Brainwashed” is a bit harsh. We put up with this because it’s necessary to work within the constraints of the system.
- avs733 9y ago
  I grew up on the coasts and for a long time would have believed that. People might hate the system but they will comply and work within it. Living in the midwest has changed my mind, here people need the system to be true because it is the basis for their entire way of seeing the world. They listen to Rush adn to Fox News...and they accept it at a philisophical level. They rely on being told it because otherwise they would have to confront a lot of realities all at once. I don't see brainwashed as a slight, I see it as said with compassion and sadness.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - chapium 9y ago
    “It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario.” What are the other options? Most dont choose their health insurance based on belief in one system or another. I agree there are plenty in the midwest, with conservative views, who believe in conservatism to unhealthy levels, no thanks to the crack pots they listen to on the radio. The only person I’ve heard who felt the american healthcare system was the best in te world was in a speech by GW Bush. His speech was answered with silence because the audience was in such shock.
tinus_hn 9y ago
The hospital can’t turn you down if you walk in with a medical emergency but they will charge you for it and if you don’t pay they’ll only patch you up until you’re no longer an emergency.
FidelCashflow 9y ago
That may be the case in an "emergency" that threatens your life. But if you come to the ER with something that doesn't fall into that category? Something life changing like a detached tendon in your hand that will* render your hand permanently useless for life if not fixed within a few days? No insurance? Fork over 50% of the cost of the surgery, upfront, before they'll do anything about it. (this happened to somebody I know)
- gm-conspiracy 9y ago
  At least they told you the cost beforehand, right (no pun intended)?
csixty4 9y ago
> they only allow people under the age of 30 People under 30 who have nothing (known) wrong with them. I was rejected for a condition which barely affects my life, at a time when I was a poorly-paid contractor with no insurance through work.
ajross 9y ago
> into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario It is, though. Insurance is expensive, but it's not a scam. That money tends to go mostly for care, overall. Someone has to pay it. It's true that on the whole, the US tends to overpay for care and that other systems tend to get similar results for less cost. But that's a constant factor on the insurance payment. Obviously many of us think making this an individual burden is a bad idea: obviously it's regressive and burdensome for the bottom of the income distribution, and more subtly it's a moral hazard for the healthy, who are tempted to forego insurance figuring that they don't need it and thus pushing the cost of providing care disproportionately onto the sick and the elderly. But again, someone has to pay it. There's no magic wand here that makes health care cheap or free. Health care is expensive, someone's got to write that check. > In 2017 I had to spend thousands of dollars in tax penalties for not having insurance. Welcome to the US! Because someone has to pay it, and you didn't!
- Bjartr 9y ago
  Health care has a cost, sure. But you haven't explained why that cost is so much higher in the US if outcomes aren't proportionally better.
  - Keverw 9y ago
    I wonder if everyone wanting to sue in America and high malpractice insurance costs might be a reason we pay more with less quality of care in America? I mean sure if you get hurt, you want some sort of recourse but I wonder if that's why American medicine is so high. A lot of the full time RV community parks and walks over to Los Algodones, Mexico for eye care/glasses, dental and some medicines that aren't a certain schedule they can get and are allowed to take back a certain amount. They pay cash directly, no insurance is needed. I guess they don't drive because of needing a separate auto insurance policy for Mexico. I believe most US policies cover only Canada, but not Mexico for trips across the border. Plus it might be quicker to just walk back and forth for a day trip. There's a official border crossing back and forth on foot for pedestrians, compared to cars which has a lot longer line. However I'm not too sure what kind of recourse you have if a dentist or some other doctor messes up. Haven't researched it too much personally. There's some YouTube videos about it though, they have like a entire block of just dental offices back to back. Kinda amazing, but it's a popular area for medical tourism. A lot of them even speak English in that town, accepts US dollars and everything. Some people just visit for lunch and check out the town.
antihero 9y ago
The thing that also confuses me about your insurance is that it doesn't even seem to cover the whole amount? I mean what the fuck.
- assblaster 9y ago
  That's the contract you enter into. You pay a premium for coverage of unexpected medical costs and you agree to pay a copay and pay up to a deductible amount. If you don't like the contract, enter into a different contract with a different company, or start your own private insurance companyn or self insure.
  - gm-conspiracy 9y ago
    I was actually doing something similar with my ISP.
    - assblaster 9y ago
      Exactly. In a country where regulations allow you to start your own insurance company or your own ISP, it works well as an alternative. With heavy regulation (Obamacare, net neutrality), it is much harder for the small time players to start their own businesses to address shortcomings of the existing companies.

by nickjj 9y ago

chapium 9y ago

“Brainwashed” is a bit harsh. We put up with this because it’s necessary to work within the constraints of the system.

avs733 9y ago
I grew up on the coasts and for a long time would have believed that. People might hate the system but they will comply and work within it. Living in the midwest has changed my mind, here people need the system to be true because it is the basis for their entire way of seeing the world. They listen to Rush adn to Fox News...and they accept it at a philisophical level. They rely on being told it because otherwise they would have to confront a lot of realities all at once. I don't see brainwashed as a slight, I see it as said with compassion and sadness.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- chapium 9y ago
  “It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario.” What are the other options? Most dont choose their health insurance based on belief in one system or another. I agree there are plenty in the midwest, with conservative views, who believe in conservatism to unhealthy levels, no thanks to the crack pots they listen to on the radio. The only person I’ve heard who felt the american healthcare system was the best in te world was in a speech by GW Bush. His speech was answered with silence because the audience was in such shock.

tinus_hn 9y ago

The hospital can’t turn you down if you walk in with a medical emergency but they will charge you for it and if you don’t pay they’ll only patch you up until you’re no longer an emergency.

FidelCashflow 9y ago

That may be the case in an "emergency" that threatens your life. But if you come to the ER with something that doesn't fall into that category? Something life changing like a detached tendon in your hand that will* render your hand permanently useless for life if not fixed within a few days? No insurance? Fork over 50% of the cost of the surgery, upfront, before they'll do anything about it. (this happened to somebody I know)

gm-conspiracy 9y ago
At least they told you the cost beforehand, right (no pun intended)?

csixty4 9y ago

> they only allow people under the age of 30 People under 30 who have nothing (known) wrong with them. I was rejected for a condition which barely affects my life, at a time when I was a poorly-paid contractor with no insurance through work.

ajross 9y ago

> into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario It is, though. Insurance is expensive, but it's not a scam. That money tends to go mostly for care, overall. Someone has to pay it. It's true that on the whole, the US tends to overpay for care and that other systems tend to get similar results for less cost. But that's a constant factor on the insurance payment. Obviously many of us think making this an individual burden is a bad idea: obviously it's regressive and burdensome for the bottom of the income distribution, and more subtly it's a moral hazard for the healthy, who are tempted to forego insurance figuring that they don't need it and thus pushing the cost of providing care disproportionately onto the sick and the elderly. But again, someone has to pay it. There's no magic wand here that makes health care cheap or free. Health care is expensive, someone's got to write that check. > In 2017 I had to spend thousands of dollars in tax penalties for not having insurance. Welcome to the US! Because someone has to pay it, and you didn't!

Bjartr 9y ago
Health care has a cost, sure. But you haven't explained why that cost is so much higher in the US if outcomes aren't proportionally better.
- Keverw 9y ago
  I wonder if everyone wanting to sue in America and high malpractice insurance costs might be a reason we pay more with less quality of care in America? I mean sure if you get hurt, you want some sort of recourse but I wonder if that's why American medicine is so high. A lot of the full time RV community parks and walks over to Los Algodones, Mexico for eye care/glasses, dental and some medicines that aren't a certain schedule they can get and are allowed to take back a certain amount. They pay cash directly, no insurance is needed. I guess they don't drive because of needing a separate auto insurance policy for Mexico. I believe most US policies cover only Canada, but not Mexico for trips across the border. Plus it might be quicker to just walk back and forth for a day trip. There's a official border crossing back and forth on foot for pedestrians, compared to cars which has a lot longer line. However I'm not too sure what kind of recourse you have if a dentist or some other doctor messes up. Haven't researched it too much personally. There's some YouTube videos about it though, they have like a entire block of just dental offices back to back. Kinda amazing, but it's a popular area for medical tourism. A lot of them even speak English in that town, accepts US dollars and everything. Some people just visit for lunch and check out the town.

antihero 9y ago

The thing that also confuses me about your insurance is that it doesn't even seem to cover the whole amount? I mean what the fuck.

assblaster 9y ago
That's the contract you enter into. You pay a premium for coverage of unexpected medical costs and you agree to pay a copay and pay up to a deductible amount. If you don't like the contract, enter into a different contract with a different company, or start your own private insurance companyn or self insure.
- gm-conspiracy 9y ago
  I was actually doing something similar with my ISP.
  - assblaster 9y ago
    Exactly. In a country where regulations allow you to start your own insurance company or your own ISP, it works well as an alternative. With heavy regulation (Obamacare, net neutrality), it is much harder for the small time players to start their own businesses to address shortcomings of the existing companies.