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What makes you think that the languages which Rust displaces aren't also niche? I used to write a lot of C++, every team I worked on always had a problem findi

What makes you think that the languages which Rust displaces aren't also niche? I used to write a lot of C++, every team I worked on always had a problem finding people who could write native code well, I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed in ~3 years or so. Why does something have to be wildly popular to be considered successful? I've found most of this industry is more about using the right tool for the job then trying to fit one language into every domain space. That said I think there are a few places where you'll see Rust really succeed in the next 3-8 years: 1. Domains that have hard memory or performance constraints. Rust matches C/C++ for performance(and I say this as a hardcore C++ perf nut) but without the segfaults/corruption(unless you step into unsafe land). 2. Products that need to go to multiple platforms but can't afford a GC. Rust has by far the best cross-platform development story I've seen in a natively compiled language. I've personally build things that run on WASM/Win32/OSX/Android/Linux across a wide range of hardware and embedded in C#/Java/C++/C. 3. Places where safety/memory corruption is unacceptable. You just get less of these from Rust, full stop. Yes you can do it in C/C++ but you better be willing to have a QA org larger than your dev team. Firefox is a perfect example of how these various concerns intersect. I used to be a serious C++ developer working on high performance, memory constrained platforms. In the past two years anything green field for me has been Rust based and I've been 100% satisfied. In both personal projects and some professional work Rust has never come up short. Is it hard to write? Sure. Do I spend less time debugging/tracking down mem corruption/dealing with poor ownership? Hell yeah.

platinumrad 8y ago
I think Rust does need to aim for strong mainstream acceptance. As I'm sure you've experienced, lower level programming, in contrast to web development, is a (justifiably) conservative field with regard to choice of tools. For example, "I write ANSI C because ANSI C is the standard" is an attitude I frequently encounter. ("I write ANSI C because everything has a compiler for ANSI C and it never changes" is probably what a lot of them are getting at.) Things like breaking changes, however minor, and "just use nightly" are anathema to this crowd. Yet this is the domain that could arguably benefit from Rust the most. I think Rust needs a strong foothold somewhere to prove its maturity before it can attack the C/C++ "heartland". >What makes you think that the languages which Rust displaces aren't also niche? Any definition of "niche" that includes C or C++ is meaningless.
- vvanders 8y ago
  Eh, depends on where you work, in gamedev land we loved to play fast & loose with nightly/etc(within reason). Heck, I'd argue that crowd is even wilder than the JS ecosystem, it's just not as public. Really, you might want to check your echo chamber a bit. Native programming is not the norm in the industry, most fresh grads have touched C or C++ once or twice and know the theory but none of the practice. Heck back when I was in college we had people coming to our community college to take the C course there since UCSD didn't offer it as part of their curriculum. Now, does the majority of software run on C/C++ based systems? Totally. However I would posit that the number of people who build those systems is much smaller than the number of people working in Java/Javascript/Python/C#/PHP/Ruby/etc. Your LoB app doesn't need the performance of C++, you just use a DB that's built with C++. You may use ngnix but the webserver behind it is probably written in Java. There's an inverted pyramid in software. The lower down the stack you go the more specialized and domain specific you get. Component/app/framework reuse means that you need less people at the bottom then you do at the top otherwise we'll all be fullstack web/frontend/backend/driver/kernel/vhdl developers. Either way I think Rust has a rich and vibrant community which isn't going away anytime soon. Would it be nicer to see wider adoption? Sure, but I'm not worried about it either.

platinumrad 8y ago

I think Rust does need to aim for strong mainstream acceptance. As I'm sure you've experienced, lower level programming, in contrast to web development, is a (justifiably) conservative field with regard to choice of tools. For example, "I write ANSI C because ANSI C is the standard" is an attitude I frequently encounter. ("I write ANSI C because everything has a compiler for ANSI C and it never changes" is probably what a lot of them are getting at.) Things like breaking changes, however minor, and "just use nightly" are anathema to this crowd. Yet this is the domain that could arguably benefit from Rust the most. I think Rust needs a strong foothold somewhere to prove its maturity before it can attack the C/C++ "heartland". >What makes you think that the languages which Rust displaces aren't also niche? Any definition of "niche" that includes C or C++ is meaningless.

vvanders 8y ago
Eh, depends on where you work, in gamedev land we loved to play fast & loose with nightly/etc(within reason). Heck, I'd argue that crowd is even wilder than the JS ecosystem, it's just not as public. Really, you might want to check your echo chamber a bit. Native programming is not the norm in the industry, most fresh grads have touched C or C++ once or twice and know the theory but none of the practice. Heck back when I was in college we had people coming to our community college to take the C course there since UCSD didn't offer it as part of their curriculum. Now, does the majority of software run on C/C++ based systems? Totally. However I would posit that the number of people who build those systems is much smaller than the number of people working in Java/Javascript/Python/C#/PHP/Ruby/etc. Your LoB app doesn't need the performance of C++, you just use a DB that's built with C++. You may use ngnix but the webserver behind it is probably written in Java. There's an inverted pyramid in software. The lower down the stack you go the more specialized and domain specific you get. Component/app/framework reuse means that you need less people at the bottom then you do at the top otherwise we'll all be fullstack web/frontend/backend/driver/kernel/vhdl developers. Either way I think Rust has a rich and vibrant community which isn't going away anytime soon. Would it be nicer to see wider adoption? Sure, but I'm not worried about it either.