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My partner is finishing their masters in China currently (native Chinese). The levels of cheating that go on within her course alone are mind boggling: 1. Girl

My partner is finishing their masters in China currently (native Chinese). The levels of cheating that go on within her course alone are mind boggling: 1. Girls asking their would-be boyfriends to complete their essays and attend modules. 2. Purchasing completed essays from Taobao. 3. Copy pasting others work from Baidu with only name alterations. 4. Paying exam setters for exam questions. Of course this is anecdotal but she has often tried to explain the culture of "Getting. good result is more important than how you got it". Cheating and succeeding shows you're resourceful. Getting caught is the only shame. The pressure and competition drives people to cheat because if you don't, you're left behind by everyone else who is.

basementcat 8y ago
I've observed all of these in the USA. I suspect this sort of thing transcends cultural and international borders. Possibly amusing anecdote: I know a smart* technical colleague who wrote at least 2 PhD dissertations for former romantic partners. As in "best dissertation award" + famous people on committee + etc , etc. The former romantic partners went on to have distinguished careers in management. * Depending on your point of view.
- redorb 8y ago
  The level of patent / trademark infringement disagrees a bit with your statement.
- camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
  Management huh? Sounds like they were training to take credit for others work all along.
- learc83 8y ago
  >I know a smart* technical colleague who wrote at least 2 PhD dissertations for former romantic partners This is very hard to believe. From my experience this just couldn't work without near full time commitment by the ghost writer. The cheater would also have to be very familiar with the dissertation--to the point where they could have just written it themselves. Pulling this off twice (or more since you said at least twice) is basically beyond belief (unless we're talking about a very disreputable university). A PhD dissertation isn't something you can just turn in and you're done. And it's generally the result of years of work.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    I find it plausible in a narrow sense of “write” that doesn't mean performing the substantive work, but merely assembling the formal written presentation of that work.
    - noobermin 8y ago
      It depends but I don't really view that as full on cheating then. It'd be nice for them to actually write a bit of it (otherwise, they're going to have a tough time writing papers once they're out of grad school) but the actually bulk of work is the real thing. Also, you can't cheat on a defense. If you can, then your Ph.D is worthless and the institution you got it from is near worthless. Reread learc83's comment and it's really true. You can't just turn in your thesis. Moreover, you have to defend it, and your committee will tear into it even on the minutiae (happened during my defense) so it doesn't matter how well you know it if it isn't your work because if it isn't your work, you won't be able to defend it. The only conclusion I can see is they are crap profs/schools but that doesn't square with the "famous people on committee" bit.
  - xevb3k 8y ago
    Even in PhDs there are people who slip through the cracks. I knew a PhD who in a postdoc would routinely plagerize work (lifted verbatim from other papers, passed off as own work). I would be shocked if they didn’t do this to some degree in their thesis too. This was from a relatively good university in the UK.
    - learc83 8y ago
      Sure some people plagiarize, but plagiarizing an entire dissertation is a much different. What are you going to do when you have to defend? Also it takes a good bit longer to get a PhD in the US compared to the UK. In the US most STEM PhDs take around 5 years to finish--that's a long time to fake it without anyone noticing.
      - xevb3k 8y ago
- eksemplar 8y ago
  I think your colleague may be lying. It’s next to impossible to be granted a PHD you didn’t write yourself after years of hard work. It’s really hard to even have your work accepted by the review board if the empirical evidence and the methods aren’t solid. A PHD is not a candidate or a bachelor, it’s where your work is reviewed by a board of experts in your field. Often some members of the board won’t necessarily want you to pass either, because it’s very likely they disagree with your thesis. I mean, it’s a cute anecdote but there is virtually no chance it actually happened.
  - knightofmars 8y ago
    Out of curiosity, do you have a PHD?
jacquesm 8y ago
That's the exact same thing that happened to the cycling sport.
m-p-3 8y ago
I guess this might explains where there are so many cheaters in online games that are Chinese. Results are prioritized about integrity and self-respect I suppose.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
GuiA 8y ago
You'll notice that 2 items in your list are about having money. If you come from a well off background, then you care about getting your degree, but not about actually acquiring skills/knowledge. Once you graduate you'll get a fictitious job for your parents' company, or something like that. I'm not sure if any data is available/accessible on the topic, but I'd be willing to wage that the young Chinese person who is the first of their family to attend university cares much more about understanding the material so they can then get a high paying job than those who can afford to buy essays from Taobao.

basementcat 8y ago

I've observed all of these in the USA. I suspect this sort of thing transcends cultural and international borders. Possibly amusing anecdote: I know a smart* technical colleague who wrote at least 2 PhD dissertations for former romantic partners. As in "best dissertation award" + famous people on committee + etc , etc. The former romantic partners went on to have distinguished careers in management. * Depending on your point of view.

redorb 8y ago
The level of patent / trademark infringement disagrees a bit with your statement.
camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
Management huh? Sounds like they were training to take credit for others work all along.
learc83 8y ago
>I know a smart* technical colleague who wrote at least 2 PhD dissertations for former romantic partners This is very hard to believe. From my experience this just couldn't work without near full time commitment by the ghost writer. The cheater would also have to be very familiar with the dissertation--to the point where they could have just written it themselves. Pulling this off twice (or more since you said at least twice) is basically beyond belief (unless we're talking about a very disreputable university). A PhD dissertation isn't something you can just turn in and you're done. And it's generally the result of years of work.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  I find it plausible in a narrow sense of “write” that doesn't mean performing the substantive work, but merely assembling the formal written presentation of that work.
  - noobermin 8y ago
    It depends but I don't really view that as full on cheating then. It'd be nice for them to actually write a bit of it (otherwise, they're going to have a tough time writing papers once they're out of grad school) but the actually bulk of work is the real thing. Also, you can't cheat on a defense. If you can, then your Ph.D is worthless and the institution you got it from is near worthless. Reread learc83's comment and it's really true. You can't just turn in your thesis. Moreover, you have to defend it, and your committee will tear into it even on the minutiae (happened during my defense) so it doesn't matter how well you know it if it isn't your work because if it isn't your work, you won't be able to defend it. The only conclusion I can see is they are crap profs/schools but that doesn't square with the "famous people on committee" bit.
- xevb3k 8y ago
  Even in PhDs there are people who slip through the cracks. I knew a PhD who in a postdoc would routinely plagerize work (lifted verbatim from other papers, passed off as own work). I would be shocked if they didn’t do this to some degree in their thesis too. This was from a relatively good university in the UK.
  - learc83 8y ago
    Sure some people plagiarize, but plagiarizing an entire dissertation is a much different. What are you going to do when you have to defend? Also it takes a good bit longer to get a PhD in the US compared to the UK. In the US most STEM PhDs take around 5 years to finish--that's a long time to fake it without anyone noticing.
    - xevb3k 8y ago
eksemplar 8y ago
I think your colleague may be lying. It’s next to impossible to be granted a PHD you didn’t write yourself after years of hard work. It’s really hard to even have your work accepted by the review board if the empirical evidence and the methods aren’t solid. A PHD is not a candidate or a bachelor, it’s where your work is reviewed by a board of experts in your field. Often some members of the board won’t necessarily want you to pass either, because it’s very likely they disagree with your thesis. I mean, it’s a cute anecdote but there is virtually no chance it actually happened.
- knightofmars 8y ago
  Out of curiosity, do you have a PHD?

jacquesm 8y ago

That's the exact same thing that happened to the cycling sport.

m-p-3 8y ago

I guess this might explains where there are so many cheaters in online games that are Chinese. Results are prioritized about integrity and self-respect I suppose.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

GuiA 8y ago

You'll notice that 2 items in your list are about having money. If you come from a well off background, then you care about getting your degree, but not about actually acquiring skills/knowledge. Once you graduate you'll get a fictitious job for your parents' company, or something like that. I'm not sure if any data is available/accessible on the topic, but I'd be willing to wage that the young Chinese person who is the first of their family to attend university cares much more about understanding the material so they can then get a high paying job than those who can afford to buy essays from Taobao.