7 ms·

Cincinnati's Abandoned Subway

135 points by gscott 9y ago

nameless912 9y ago
Growing up in Cincinnati, people constantly talked about this tunnel like it was some kind of holy grail of urban exploration. That fantasy was reduced a little when I found out when I was older that you could buy a tour from the museum center. I've yet to go, but it's on my bucket list.
- EvanAnderson 9y ago
  In the last 5-ish years they've discontinued that particular tour, citing insurance reasons. The tour was a lot of fun, and I'm glad I got to do it and bummed that others aren't getting to. I got a bit of a "megalophobia" feeling standing beside the immense water main that runs down the southbound tunnel.
- gresrun 9y ago
  A great video of a couple guys exploring Cincinnati's subway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6A0_uxyvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6A0_uxyvs
driverdan 9y ago
Rochester, NY also used to have an abandoned subway. The tunnel was much shorter and it was actually used. It used to be wide open and easy to explore. A few years ago they closed it up and filled in part of it.
- neuromantik8086 9y ago
  Rochester's subway was more like light rail from what I understand (i.e., what they have in Buffalo now). A large portion of it was a re-purposed aqueduct from the Erie Canal, so it wasn't quite the most ambitious subway system. If it had stuck around longer past the 40s though I imagine it could have evolved into quite a formidable system.
- InitialLastName 9y ago
  That's a shame. You used to be able to walk that tunnel to a railroad embankment that you could see into the Redwings games from.
JoeDaDude 9y ago
In Pennsylvania there is a section of the old turnpike that was abandoned [1], including two tunnels, one of them over a mile long. I hiked it several years ago - it is open for public recreation and it is a great place to go biking (bring a headlight). Recommended if you are in the area. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandoned_Pennsylvania_Turnpike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandoned_Pennsylvania_Turnpik...
- cozzyd 9y ago
  Another tunnel one can hike through is at Donner Pass: https://californiathroughmylens.com/donner-pass-summit-tunnel-hike https://californiathroughmylens.com/donner-pass-summit-tunne...
  - jpatokal 9y ago
    Sounds like a great place for a party.
    - robk 9y ago
      Bring your appetite
      - JoeDaDude 9y ago
        ;) Surely you are talking about the Donner party [1] cannibalism incident. Coincidentally, the film The Road, which also featured cannibalism, had a short scene filmed at one of the tunnels on the closed Pennsylvania Turnpike [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_(2009_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_(2009_film)
RyanShook 9y ago
Why did construction stop?
- 086421357909764 9y ago
  My guess is the great depression killed funding or interests.
- cleetus 9y ago
  Growing up there I remember hearing that there was some problem with the tunnels being too narrow and the cars not fitting - but that was probably more local folklore than anything else. Cincinnati is pretty hilly - not San Francisco or Seattle hilly - but enough that I would think developing any sort of system would be pretty expensive and difficult.
Touche 9y ago
Interesting! Was there a time when it was thought that every mid-sized city could have a subway? Today even Chicago (the third biggest U.S. city) doesn't have one. I can't imagine there being enough urban space in Cincinnati to sustain one.
- deepfriedbits 9y ago
  Chicago certainly has a subway. Sure, only a portion near downtown runs underground, while the rest is elevated (the L) but their system is the second-largest in the US.
  - cozzyd 9y ago
    Well, I think technically BART and the DC Metro have more track miles, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_tr... the "L" narrowly has the second highest ridership.
    - bunderbunder 9y ago
      Some of that may be a difference in focus. The L barely extends outside of the city proper, and a separate rail system almost exclusively serves the suburbs. The division of responsibilities between the rapid transit and commuter rail systems in DC and the Bay Area is different in a way that might account for both the greater total system length and the lower ridership per mile compared to Chicago's system. Or Boston's T, for that matter.
  - bunderbunder 9y ago
    Outside of Manhattan, much of NYC's system is aboveground, too. I'm not sure it normally makes much sense to put the trains underground in any but the most densely populated areas.
  - Touche 9y ago
    I don't want to get into an argument on the definition of "subway", but Chicago's is not like what this article describes, or what is in Manhattan.
rmason 9y ago
Construction began on a Detroit subway in either 1928 or 1929 and they built two stations. When I was in college someone got busted for running tours. But I've been frustrated for the past forty years trying to find more. Current employees working for the city know nothing about it. My Dad watched the construction as a junior high student. The newspaper story about the illegal tour was the only confirmation I've ever seen.
- wcunning 9y ago
  Does the Free Press archive not have anything on it? If not, maybe a library search request with the city library or Wayne State would help... If not any of those, I'm curious what the historical societies or maybe some offbeat publication like the Motor City Muckraker might be able to dredge up.
  - rmason 9y ago
    I found articles about the debate on whether to build it or not. They started debating it in 1912 and the car companies vigorously fought it which isn't a surprise. Tried the archive just now and couldn't find anything around the time of the actual construction but I will keep working on it. If I can find a little bit bet I could get the Muckracker to do a story. Bet they have resources we both lack.
    - wcunning 9y ago
      They were looking for funding pretty hard a year or two ago, so while I would expect the Muckraker to do a great job, I'd feel obligated to donate.
mastazi 9y ago
Note: contrary to what the linked page says, the tunnel is not immediately usable in its current state because it houses the city water main, that can be seen in the Youtube video byt "The Proper People" channel, linked elsewhere in this comments thread.
- ChristianGeek 9y ago
  It can also be seen in photos on the linked site.
- reportingsjr 9y ago
  A redundant water main was built in the 90s partly so the one in the tunnel could be quickly removed if needed. The new one was built as part of the Fort Washington Way rebuild.
AtomicOrbital 9y ago
Manhattan's 2nd Ave subway was famously shut down by mayor LaGuardia who happened to be a large shareholder in the nascent automobile industry
- neuromantik8086 9y ago
  Meh. What you're saying is sort of true although I wouldn't put my tinfoil hat on about LaGuardia. The 2nd Avenue subway was shut down because it wasn't actually a subway, it was an El. El's make a lot of noisy ruckus that people in the surrounding area weren't keen on and trains can't run as fast on their tracks. When the El was torn down it was assumed that a new subway tunnel would be built where it used to be in short order (it's kind of a bit difficult to bore holes under a street that's supporting an elevated structure so it was supposed to be done in phases). Unfortunately due to bureaucratic snafus, lack of funding, and general apathy, the 2nd Avenue Line has only recently sort of come to fruition (but not really).
PakG1 9y ago
So it's actually legitimately feasible for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to find a home in an abandoned subway station. I had always wondered why on earth there would be abandoned subway stations. The free working electricity may still be a stretch though.
- flurdy 9y ago
  London has several abandoned stations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_and_unopened_London_Underground_stations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_and_unopened_Lo... Mostly due to location no longer suitable, ie too close to another station, or issues with access. Or structurally unsafe and uneconomical to refurbish, maybe some was damaged too much from the Blitz. And not all are passenger stations. Some were for maintenance, post etc. Royal Mail did have its own tube line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway
  - robk 9y ago
    You can ride the postal rail now Google Mail Rail for tickets via the transport museum. It's super fun.
- Xylakant 9y ago
  There's a full second subway station at Berlins "Rathaus Steglitz" station. The original plan was that two subways were supposed to cross here, but that never happened and it remains the terminus of the U9. Somebody built a fully furnished room in another part of the Berlin subway network: https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berlin/zimmer-im-tunnel-geniale-guerillakunst-im-u-bahn-schacht-23532692 https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berlin/zimmer-im-tunnel-geni...
tonywastaken 9y ago
Not sure if it’s an Easter egg from the author but the title of this page is “All you clowns in the Art Dept can kiss my *”: http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway-portaltour4.html http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway-portaltour4.html
purplezooey 9y ago
It's also well known that General Motors purchased bus systems in the 50s and 60s and intentionally bankrupted them.

135 points by gscott 9y ago

Growing up in Cincinnati, people constantly talked about this tunnel like it was some kind of holy grail of urban exploration. That fantasy was reduced a little when I found out when I was older that you could buy a tour from the museum center. I've yet to go, but it's on my bucket list.

EvanAnderson 9y ago
In the last 5-ish years they've discontinued that particular tour, citing insurance reasons. The tour was a lot of fun, and I'm glad I got to do it and bummed that others aren't getting to. I got a bit of a "megalophobia" feeling standing beside the immense water main that runs down the southbound tunnel.
gresrun 9y ago
A great video of a couple guys exploring Cincinnati's subway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6A0_uxyvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6A0_uxyvs

driverdan 9y ago

Rochester, NY also used to have an abandoned subway. The tunnel was much shorter and it was actually used. It used to be wide open and easy to explore. A few years ago they closed it up and filled in part of it.

neuromantik8086 9y ago
Rochester's subway was more like light rail from what I understand (i.e., what they have in Buffalo now). A large portion of it was a re-purposed aqueduct from the Erie Canal, so it wasn't quite the most ambitious subway system. If it had stuck around longer past the 40s though I imagine it could have evolved into quite a formidable system.
InitialLastName 9y ago
That's a shame. You used to be able to walk that tunnel to a railroad embankment that you could see into the Redwings games from.

JoeDaDude 9y ago

In Pennsylvania there is a section of the old turnpike that was abandoned [1], including two tunnels, one of them over a mile long. I hiked it several years ago - it is open for public recreation and it is a great place to go biking (bring a headlight). Recommended if you are in the area. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandoned_Pennsylvania_Turnpike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandoned_Pennsylvania_Turnpik...

cozzyd 9y ago
Another tunnel one can hike through is at Donner Pass: https://californiathroughmylens.com/donner-pass-summit-tunnel-hike https://californiathroughmylens.com/donner-pass-summit-tunne...
- jpatokal 9y ago
  Sounds like a great place for a party.
  - robk 9y ago
    Bring your appetite
    - JoeDaDude 9y ago
      ;) Surely you are talking about the Donner party [1] cannibalism incident. Coincidentally, the film The Road, which also featured cannibalism, had a short scene filmed at one of the tunnels on the closed Pennsylvania Turnpike [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_(2009_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_(2009_film)

RyanShook 9y ago

Why did construction stop?

086421357909764 9y ago
My guess is the great depression killed funding or interests.
cleetus 9y ago
Growing up there I remember hearing that there was some problem with the tunnels being too narrow and the cars not fitting - but that was probably more local folklore than anything else. Cincinnati is pretty hilly - not San Francisco or Seattle hilly - but enough that I would think developing any sort of system would be pretty expensive and difficult.

Touche 9y ago

Interesting! Was there a time when it was thought that every mid-sized city could have a subway? Today even Chicago (the third biggest U.S. city) doesn't have one. I can't imagine there being enough urban space in Cincinnati to sustain one.

deepfriedbits 9y ago
Chicago certainly has a subway. Sure, only a portion near downtown runs underground, while the rest is elevated (the L) but their system is the second-largest in the US.
- cozzyd 9y ago
  Well, I think technically BART and the DC Metro have more track miles, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_tr... the "L" narrowly has the second highest ridership.
  - bunderbunder 9y ago
    Some of that may be a difference in focus. The L barely extends outside of the city proper, and a separate rail system almost exclusively serves the suburbs. The division of responsibilities between the rapid transit and commuter rail systems in DC and the Bay Area is different in a way that might account for both the greater total system length and the lower ridership per mile compared to Chicago's system. Or Boston's T, for that matter.
- bunderbunder 9y ago
  Outside of Manhattan, much of NYC's system is aboveground, too. I'm not sure it normally makes much sense to put the trains underground in any but the most densely populated areas.
- Touche 9y ago
  I don't want to get into an argument on the definition of "subway", but Chicago's is not like what this article describes, or what is in Manhattan.

rmason 9y ago

Construction began on a Detroit subway in either 1928 or 1929 and they built two stations. When I was in college someone got busted for running tours. But I've been frustrated for the past forty years trying to find more. Current employees working for the city know nothing about it. My Dad watched the construction as a junior high student. The newspaper story about the illegal tour was the only confirmation I've ever seen.

wcunning 9y ago
Does the Free Press archive not have anything on it? If not, maybe a library search request with the city library or Wayne State would help... If not any of those, I'm curious what the historical societies or maybe some offbeat publication like the Motor City Muckraker might be able to dredge up.
- rmason 9y ago
  I found articles about the debate on whether to build it or not. They started debating it in 1912 and the car companies vigorously fought it which isn't a surprise. Tried the archive just now and couldn't find anything around the time of the actual construction but I will keep working on it. If I can find a little bit bet I could get the Muckracker to do a story. Bet they have resources we both lack.
  - wcunning 9y ago
    They were looking for funding pretty hard a year or two ago, so while I would expect the Muckraker to do a great job, I'd feel obligated to donate.

mastazi 9y ago

Note: contrary to what the linked page says, the tunnel is not immediately usable in its current state because it houses the city water main, that can be seen in the Youtube video byt "The Proper People" channel, linked elsewhere in this comments thread.

ChristianGeek 9y ago
It can also be seen in photos on the linked site.
reportingsjr 9y ago
A redundant water main was built in the 90s partly so the one in the tunnel could be quickly removed if needed. The new one was built as part of the Fort Washington Way rebuild.

AtomicOrbital 9y ago

Manhattan's 2nd Ave subway was famously shut down by mayor LaGuardia who happened to be a large shareholder in the nascent automobile industry

neuromantik8086 9y ago
Meh. What you're saying is sort of true although I wouldn't put my tinfoil hat on about LaGuardia. The 2nd Avenue subway was shut down because it wasn't actually a subway, it was an El. El's make a lot of noisy ruckus that people in the surrounding area weren't keen on and trains can't run as fast on their tracks. When the El was torn down it was assumed that a new subway tunnel would be built where it used to be in short order (it's kind of a bit difficult to bore holes under a street that's supporting an elevated structure so it was supposed to be done in phases). Unfortunately due to bureaucratic snafus, lack of funding, and general apathy, the 2nd Avenue Line has only recently sort of come to fruition (but not really).

PakG1 9y ago

So it's actually legitimately feasible for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to find a home in an abandoned subway station. I had always wondered why on earth there would be abandoned subway stations. The free working electricity may still be a stretch though.

flurdy 9y ago
London has several abandoned stations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_and_unopened_London_Underground_stations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_and_unopened_Lo... Mostly due to location no longer suitable, ie too close to another station, or issues with access. Or structurally unsafe and uneconomical to refurbish, maybe some was damaged too much from the Blitz. And not all are passenger stations. Some were for maintenance, post etc. Royal Mail did have its own tube line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway
- robk 9y ago
  You can ride the postal rail now Google Mail Rail for tickets via the transport museum. It's super fun.
Xylakant 9y ago
There's a full second subway station at Berlins "Rathaus Steglitz" station. The original plan was that two subways were supposed to cross here, but that never happened and it remains the terminus of the U9. Somebody built a fully furnished room in another part of the Berlin subway network: https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berlin/zimmer-im-tunnel-geniale-guerillakunst-im-u-bahn-schacht-23532692 https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berlin/zimmer-im-tunnel-geni...

tonywastaken 9y ago

Not sure if it’s an Easter egg from the author but the title of this page is “All you clowns in the Art Dept can kiss my *”: http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway-portaltour4.html http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway-portaltour4.html

purplezooey 9y ago

It's also well known that General Motors purchased bus systems in the 50s and 60s and intentionally bankrupted them.