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>or barely graduated and ended up worse off than our other classmates in terms of job/grad school prospects. And also devalues the degree their peers actually
by badlucklottery 8y ago
>or barely graduated and ended up worse off than our other classmates in terms of job/grad school prospects.
And also devalues the degree their peers actually worked for, even if only a little. I've been in a lot of interviews where I'm wondering, "How the hell did this person graduate from ${school}?" and the obvious answer is "a non-zero amount of cheating".
I don't think you should beat yourself up over it but I also think but it's also important not to rationalize it away either.
- sithadmin 8y agoPersonally, I don't really see meaningful value in degrees anyway, so I don't really buy that line of argumentation. My only reason for pursuing graduate studies was to pass the barrier to entry for an academic position, but I gave up on that and went into consulting.
- badlucklottery 8y ago>I don't really see meaningful value in degrees anyway Do you see how that's a rationalization strategy? Maybe you honestly don't but discounting the value of the degree to zero makes your actions victimless. But, if the value is non-zero, damage has been done.
- ttoinou 8y agoHe acted morally right to me. Lowering value of shitty diplomas you can cheat easily is useful to society, and brings future competition to this industry
- openasocket 8y agoIs stealing from stores that don't have good security also useful to society, by bringing future competition to the industry? And if so, does that make stealing moral?
- ttoinou 8y agoMy second sentence was not a justification to the first one, just one of the intended consequences on society of what he did. How did his action compares to stealing ?
- openasocket 8y agoI thought your second sentence was meant to be a justification of the first. So what is your justification for why what he did is morally right?
- ttoinou 8y agoThe students lied to their professor, he just sold them the text so I don't see any wrong doing on his part. Can you justify why it would be bad to ghostwrite ?
- openasocket 8y agoCheating is immoral. Helping someone do something immoral is also immoral. Therefore, what he is doing is wrong. Do you disagree with the first sentence or the second?
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoThere can be shades of everything of course. If a cheater uses a legitimate ghostwriting service, maybe doesn't rise to the level of 'immoral'. But that might not be the case here?
- ttoinou 8y agoI'm not sure what cheating means here, it is about lying to professors. Helping someone do something immoral is also immoral. Depends on the circumstances
- openasocket 8y ago
- sithadmin 8y agoRationalization? No. There's no rationalization going on in my head. I just don't care. But if people are going to argue about it? Sure, I'll raise a counterpoint.
- andai 8y agoThere's no nice way to say this, but you might be a sociopath.
- ThoAppelsin 8y agoYou should care. It is your responsibility to care from the point on when you've decided to take a part in these events. You shouldn't have initiated with them if you wanted to be so careless.
- borkt 8y agoI agree. I got fairly close to finishing but was disillusioned by a few teachers and students who clearly weren't there for the right reason. I had a graduate professor that specifically forbid us to work in groups on problem sets. When I would only make it half way after days of work, my professor would ask what is wrong with me and why im not completing work. When I mention I saw the rest of the class working together he said if you can't solve it thats what I should have done. So break the rules he set to do better? It just made no sense. That and people splitting assignments up and then bringing together each persons contribution and copying it. It was done far more often than not, and in the open right down the hall from a teachers office hours. I decided it really wasn't an environment I wanted to be in and just moved on.
- sithadmin 8y agoSounds par for the course to me. I was working towards a degree in the social sciences at a top 5 (for my field) university/top 10 in general. I was mostly disillusioned by the professors that put little to no effort into leading engaging seminars (some of which were the top living 'experts' in their fields), and the fact that so many other postdocs from other top 5 schools were adjuncting at my university and just sitting in on my classes, with no hope for actually obtaining a tenure track position anywhere.