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>> In a move that was pivotal to his legal case, he requested a transcript of the call I take advantage of the fact that the companies who seem to be the most

>> In a move that was pivotal to his legal case, he requested a transcript of the call I take advantage of the fact that the companies who seem to be the most frustrating to deal with, are courteous enough to begin each phone call stating that "calls may be recorded." I have a call recording app on my phone and on at least 3 occasions I have had a company immediately escalate a phone call to a person who immediately fixed the problem when I offered to replay a previous phone call back to them. That app probably has the highest value-to-cost ratio of any app on my phone. edit: I should add that depending on the state, you may be allowed to record simply by virtue of the fact that you are a party to the conversation. Some states do require consent from all parties and how this applies across state lines is poorly defined. That's why I like it when companies tell me they're recording - then I have a green light. Funnily, Verizon once called me, told me they were recording, and then hung up when I said I was too.

deepsun 9y ago
What app is that? I've found that none of Play Store apps can record the other party, only my own voice.
- TallGuyShort 9y ago
  Mine is called "Call Recorder - ACR" on Google Play. I've had that same problem before - the Android permissions relevant to this type of app have changed through various versions and on different phones - there's a different combination of settings you need depending on your device - they have a help page about it that I had to play around with before I got it to work again after an upgrade. edit: If you have a good poker face it may not matter - I've had a company push back a little further but eventually cave before I actually sent them the MP3, but only once has anyone actually heard any of the recording before they changed their tune.
  - wkearney99 9y ago
    Got a link to that particular app? Name games on the play store make it worth following a known-good link instead of just searching for text...
    - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
      Here's the one I use: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appstar.callrecorder https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appstar.ca... Not sure if it's the same as OP's, but it works for me! That's the free version, good enough for most purposes and certainly for testing. But they have a paid version with some features that are nice for business use if you need that.
    - TallGuyShort 9y ago
      This is what I currently use: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nll.acr https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nll.acr.
    - TwoNineFive 9y ago
      For Android, I use skvalex call recorder. It costs $10, which is "relatively" expensive for Android apps, but it's worth it. I bought it years ago and it has been recording my calls ever since. Other call recording apps were either spyware/adware traps or were just terrible. For me, no other call recording app worked because of the hardware I had. Some phones make call recording easy and some make it nearly impossible. I hear that recent phones are much better than phones from two or more years ago. Some of the features that make the skvalex app better than anything else I tried are automatic recording all the time, detailed recording meta info, automatic file encryption, automatic recording cleanup, and I find the UI design to be utility oriented, which is a good thing. Note that previous versions of the app were removed from the Google Play Store because they used prohibited methods to record calls on devices that don't have official call recording APIs. The new app is labeled as a beta/test, but it's very stable. Note that if your phone doesn't work with the app in the Google Play Store, you need to install the CallRecorderROOT apk module, which you can only get from the XDA forum post. You don't need the CallRecorderROOT apk if your phone works with the standard API, which many do these days. https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1441643 https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1441643 Finally, using this app has paid off immensely. There are a couple of particular vendors I work with (Notably Cisco Systems) that have fking awful support, and I've dug out recordings of their terrible phone support calls and put it in front of our reps in group meetings. Being able to put the embarrassing behavior of their support reps in front of them gets an immediate attitude adjustment, and in my case, our support tier was bumped up to top-tier status and I've never had a problematic call since. Yes, depending on how much you pay or how big a customer you are determines which group of phone droids your call gets routed to.
  - JesseWright 9y ago
    I definitely second ACR. I use it and have it set up to record literally every phone call I make or receive. (You might need to be mindful of espionage laws depending on where you live, as some states/countries might require consent from both parties.) I'd strongly suggest everyone record their phone calls with any kind of company or business, especially larger corporations. It's a good way to make sure they can't renege once they've promised you something.
- gruez 9y ago
  lineageos has call recording (at least in 14.1, it's gone in 15.1 for some reason)
- discreditable 9y ago
  I work around it by making calls with Google Hangouts on my PC and capturing the audio with OBS.
- ballenf 9y ago
  There are universal apps that route a call through a data center that records the call for you. Don't remember the names but they work on iOS as well as Android. Monthly or usage fees for use. And you don't even need the app -- can use a web interface as well. But I would guess you have to originate the call.
neuromantik8086 9y ago
A recording of the call, for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf97H6cV5QQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf97H6cV5QQ
koolba 9y ago
I've had the same experience though I don't use a special app, just regular audio recorder, as the phone I'm using for the call isn't my mobile. On every occasion that I've mentioned having a recording of terms distinct from what is actually being provided/charged I've received immediate escalation and resolution. The funniest was with an ISP (who shall remain nameless) who claimed that they didn't have access to their copy of the previous conversation and thus couldn't confirm or honor the supposedly offered price. Once I mentioned that I had a recording the call resolved in about 1.5 minutes.
- dawnerd 9y ago
  Probably why they say "your call may be monitored or recorded"
ryanlol 9y ago
It is utterly ridiculous that iOS is still lacking support for this super basic feature.
- giarc 9y ago
  It's not really a basic feature. The sandboxing of iOS apps is smart in many ways. Allowing 3rd party access to an native Apple app could open up problems.
  - bcholmes 9y ago
    Apple can implement "record call" in the standard phone app, though, without allowing 3rd party access.
  - freeone3000 9y ago
    You don't need to solve the general case, just the specific one - add recording to dialer.
  - jgh 9y ago
    They already allow recording the audio from other apps, other than through audio plugins which apps have to purposefully implement, via ReplayKit.
- mcherm 9y ago
  But there's a good reason for that -- as long as legislatures keep making it ILLEGAL to use such a feature, can you really blame Apple for not wanting to offer it?
  - chipperyman573 9y ago
    It's not illegal federally or in any of the 38 single-party consent states, as long as the person recording is a member of the conversation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#Unite...
scrollaway 9y ago
Many companies' CSRs are under strict instructions to hang up if they ever get so much as a hint that the conversation may be recorded. I find it utterly disgusting. Online chats, emails etc will always be recorded, why are companies so scared of their phone support being recorded? I hope at some point we get regulation requiring companies to share recorded phonecalls with their customers when they demand it. (I'm not entirely certain GDPR covers phone calls. Maybe someone knows)
- ryanlol 9y ago
  >I'm not entirely certain GDPR covers phone calls. Depends on the content and the information stored alongside it, the medium is irrelevant.
  - tjoff 9y ago
    Shouldn't the voice be personal identifiable information? Just as a picture is. They could of course store a machine translated transcript instead (assuming no personally identifiable information is uttered (though almost always there is, the customer is expected to give a customer ID or something)). Also, considering how bad computers are at understanding spoken words the usefulness would be debatable depending on context.
    - TallGuyShort 9y ago
      I would imagine most calls that people would want to record would contain PII anyway: account numbers, etc.
- Spoom 9y ago
  > Many companies' CSRs are under strict instructions to hang up if they ever get so much as a hint that the conversation may be recorded. This was our policy when I was doing tech support and I enforced it a small handful of times.
- walrus01 9y ago
  All of Canada is a one party consent jurisdiction for phone call recording. You (the consumer) do not need to inform the other end.
larrik 9y ago
I really miss the recording app I had on my Treo. Insanely useful, especially since I miss things in verbal conversations a lot, and it was handy to be able to go back to. I tried jailbreaking my iPhone a couple times specifically for that feature, but the apps were lame.
Spoom 9y ago
I'm guessing companies will eventually change the message to say that they're recording, and place their call center in a two party state, so you have to request their permission to record on your end (which they will decline).
- TallGuyShort 9y ago
  The specific laws I'm familiar with don't reference consent to each specific recording, they reference consent for it to be recorded in general terms. Unless the law changed I wouldn't bother myself with it.
- ballenf 9y ago
  Would they have to wait for the customer to likewise consent -- would their recording not be an implicit consent? Even in the two-party states, I would be surprised to find a judge or prosecutor who would allow a claim against a customer recording a call that was also recorded by the company. Even if technically violating the letter of the law. But cases like these have surprised me before.
- Casseres 9y ago
  Companies usually play that disclaimer via robot. Does the law say I have to give notice when I think there's an actual human on the other end, or can I give notice when the robot pauses? The robot isn't verifying that there's an actual human on my end.
throwaway613834 9y ago
> That's why I like it when companies tell me they're recording - then I have a green light. I'm not sure them having permission to record implies you also having permission to record in all-party-consent states. I would appreciate a source stating otherwise.
- TallGuyShort 9y ago
  The phrase "this call may be recorded" is literally granting permission.
  - throwaway613834 9y ago
    To themselves, not you. And in the "might" sense, not in the "permitted" sense.
    - chrischen 9y ago
      But they're disclosing the call is recorded, for all parties. Maybe you can slot in a "likewise" or "ditto" into it.
    - TallGuyShort 9y ago
      No - they can't escape the literal meaning of the words. "May I use your restroom?" "Yes, you may use the restroom." Meaning is clear. "This call may be recorded." I'm sorry, that's consent. If they want to argue that their intent is otherwise once I produce my recording that's up to them, but by the literal meaning of their words in the English language they have definitely granted consent. And as a side note, all of my recordings include me stating on the call that I am also recording. They don't hear me because it's a machine, but they used a machine to get my consent and assume I gave it because I remain on the line, but they also remain on the line after stating it's being recorded. They really have no leg to stand on if they want to fight me on it.
      - throwaway613834 9y ago
        You really think a judge is going to buy this?
grizzles 9y ago
What phone / app do you use? I've wanted this feature since forever. I just tried installing a few high rated android apps on my new android phone and so far nothing records my counterparts side of the conversation.
- TallGuyShort 9y ago
  See my reply to deepsun's comment on this thread.

deepsun 9y ago

What app is that? I've found that none of Play Store apps can record the other party, only my own voice.

TallGuyShort 9y ago
Mine is called "Call Recorder - ACR" on Google Play. I've had that same problem before - the Android permissions relevant to this type of app have changed through various versions and on different phones - there's a different combination of settings you need depending on your device - they have a help page about it that I had to play around with before I got it to work again after an upgrade. edit: If you have a good poker face it may not matter - I've had a company push back a little further but eventually cave before I actually sent them the MP3, but only once has anyone actually heard any of the recording before they changed their tune.
- wkearney99 9y ago
  Got a link to that particular app? Name games on the play store make it worth following a known-good link instead of just searching for text...
  - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
    Here's the one I use: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appstar.callrecorder https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appstar.ca... Not sure if it's the same as OP's, but it works for me! That's the free version, good enough for most purposes and certainly for testing. But they have a paid version with some features that are nice for business use if you need that.
  - TallGuyShort 9y ago
    This is what I currently use: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nll.acr https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nll.acr.
  - TwoNineFive 9y ago
    For Android, I use skvalex call recorder. It costs $10, which is "relatively" expensive for Android apps, but it's worth it. I bought it years ago and it has been recording my calls ever since. Other call recording apps were either spyware/adware traps or were just terrible. For me, no other call recording app worked because of the hardware I had. Some phones make call recording easy and some make it nearly impossible. I hear that recent phones are much better than phones from two or more years ago. Some of the features that make the skvalex app better than anything else I tried are automatic recording all the time, detailed recording meta info, automatic file encryption, automatic recording cleanup, and I find the UI design to be utility oriented, which is a good thing. Note that previous versions of the app were removed from the Google Play Store because they used prohibited methods to record calls on devices that don't have official call recording APIs. The new app is labeled as a beta/test, but it's very stable. Note that if your phone doesn't work with the app in the Google Play Store, you need to install the CallRecorderROOT apk module, which you can only get from the XDA forum post. You don't need the CallRecorderROOT apk if your phone works with the standard API, which many do these days. https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1441643 https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1441643 Finally, using this app has paid off immensely. There are a couple of particular vendors I work with (Notably Cisco Systems) that have fking awful support, and I've dug out recordings of their terrible phone support calls and put it in front of our reps in group meetings. Being able to put the embarrassing behavior of their support reps in front of them gets an immediate attitude adjustment, and in my case, our support tier was bumped up to top-tier status and I've never had a problematic call since. Yes, depending on how much you pay or how big a customer you are determines which group of phone droids your call gets routed to.
- JesseWright 9y ago
  I definitely second ACR. I use it and have it set up to record literally every phone call I make or receive. (You might need to be mindful of espionage laws depending on where you live, as some states/countries might require consent from both parties.) I'd strongly suggest everyone record their phone calls with any kind of company or business, especially larger corporations. It's a good way to make sure they can't renege once they've promised you something.
gruez 9y ago
lineageos has call recording (at least in 14.1, it's gone in 15.1 for some reason)
discreditable 9y ago
I work around it by making calls with Google Hangouts on my PC and capturing the audio with OBS.
ballenf 9y ago
There are universal apps that route a call through a data center that records the call for you. Don't remember the names but they work on iOS as well as Android. Monthly or usage fees for use. And you don't even need the app -- can use a web interface as well. But I would guess you have to originate the call.

neuromantik8086 9y ago

A recording of the call, for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf97H6cV5QQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf97H6cV5QQ

koolba 9y ago

I've had the same experience though I don't use a special app, just regular audio recorder, as the phone I'm using for the call isn't my mobile. On every occasion that I've mentioned having a recording of terms distinct from what is actually being provided/charged I've received immediate escalation and resolution. The funniest was with an ISP (who shall remain nameless) who claimed that they didn't have access to their copy of the previous conversation and thus couldn't confirm or honor the supposedly offered price. Once I mentioned that I had a recording the call resolved in about 1.5 minutes.

dawnerd 9y ago
Probably why they say "your call may be monitored or recorded"

ryanlol 9y ago

It is utterly ridiculous that iOS is still lacking support for this super basic feature.

giarc 9y ago
It's not really a basic feature. The sandboxing of iOS apps is smart in many ways. Allowing 3rd party access to an native Apple app could open up problems.
- bcholmes 9y ago
  Apple can implement "record call" in the standard phone app, though, without allowing 3rd party access.
- freeone3000 9y ago
  You don't need to solve the general case, just the specific one - add recording to dialer.
- jgh 9y ago
  They already allow recording the audio from other apps, other than through audio plugins which apps have to purposefully implement, via ReplayKit.
mcherm 9y ago
But there's a good reason for that -- as long as legislatures keep making it ILLEGAL to use such a feature, can you really blame Apple for not wanting to offer it?
- chipperyman573 9y ago
  It's not illegal federally or in any of the 38 single-party consent states, as long as the person recording is a member of the conversation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#Unite...

scrollaway 9y ago

Many companies' CSRs are under strict instructions to hang up if they ever get so much as a hint that the conversation may be recorded. I find it utterly disgusting. Online chats, emails etc will always be recorded, why are companies so scared of their phone support being recorded? I hope at some point we get regulation requiring companies to share recorded phonecalls with their customers when they demand it. (I'm not entirely certain GDPR covers phone calls. Maybe someone knows)

ryanlol 9y ago
>I'm not entirely certain GDPR covers phone calls. Depends on the content and the information stored alongside it, the medium is irrelevant.
- tjoff 9y ago
  Shouldn't the voice be personal identifiable information? Just as a picture is. They could of course store a machine translated transcript instead (assuming no personally identifiable information is uttered (though almost always there is, the customer is expected to give a customer ID or something)). Also, considering how bad computers are at understanding spoken words the usefulness would be debatable depending on context.
  - TallGuyShort 9y ago
    I would imagine most calls that people would want to record would contain PII anyway: account numbers, etc.
Spoom 9y ago
> Many companies' CSRs are under strict instructions to hang up if they ever get so much as a hint that the conversation may be recorded. This was our policy when I was doing tech support and I enforced it a small handful of times.
walrus01 9y ago
All of Canada is a one party consent jurisdiction for phone call recording. You (the consumer) do not need to inform the other end.

larrik 9y ago

I really miss the recording app I had on my Treo. Insanely useful, especially since I miss things in verbal conversations a lot, and it was handy to be able to go back to. I tried jailbreaking my iPhone a couple times specifically for that feature, but the apps were lame.

Spoom 9y ago

I'm guessing companies will eventually change the message to say that they're recording, and place their call center in a two party state, so you have to request their permission to record on your end (which they will decline).

TallGuyShort 9y ago
The specific laws I'm familiar with don't reference consent to each specific recording, they reference consent for it to be recorded in general terms. Unless the law changed I wouldn't bother myself with it.
ballenf 9y ago
Would they have to wait for the customer to likewise consent -- would their recording not be an implicit consent? Even in the two-party states, I would be surprised to find a judge or prosecutor who would allow a claim against a customer recording a call that was also recorded by the company. Even if technically violating the letter of the law. But cases like these have surprised me before.
Casseres 9y ago
Companies usually play that disclaimer via robot. Does the law say I have to give notice when I think there's an actual human on the other end, or can I give notice when the robot pauses? The robot isn't verifying that there's an actual human on my end.

throwaway613834 9y ago

> That's why I like it when companies tell me they're recording - then I have a green light. I'm not sure them having permission to record implies you also having permission to record in all-party-consent states. I would appreciate a source stating otherwise.

TallGuyShort 9y ago
The phrase "this call may be recorded" is literally granting permission.
- throwaway613834 9y ago
  To themselves, not you. And in the "might" sense, not in the "permitted" sense.
  - chrischen 9y ago
    But they're disclosing the call is recorded, for all parties. Maybe you can slot in a "likewise" or "ditto" into it.
  - TallGuyShort 9y ago
    No - they can't escape the literal meaning of the words. "May I use your restroom?" "Yes, you may use the restroom." Meaning is clear. "This call may be recorded." I'm sorry, that's consent. If they want to argue that their intent is otherwise once I produce my recording that's up to them, but by the literal meaning of their words in the English language they have definitely granted consent. And as a side note, all of my recordings include me stating on the call that I am also recording. They don't hear me because it's a machine, but they used a machine to get my consent and assume I gave it because I remain on the line, but they also remain on the line after stating it's being recorded. They really have no leg to stand on if they want to fight me on it.
    - throwaway613834 9y ago
      You really think a judge is going to buy this?

grizzles 9y ago

What phone / app do you use? I've wanted this feature since forever. I just tried installing a few high rated android apps on my new android phone and so far nothing records my counterparts side of the conversation.

TallGuyShort 9y ago
See my reply to deepsun's comment on this thread.