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This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. Maybe some of us our outliers here so it may be odd for me to say this but I honestly h

This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. Maybe some of us our outliers here so it may be odd for me to say this but I honestly have spent more time coding social networks than actually using them. So no, I don't get how people are forced to use them.

dkn 8y ago
They aren't forced to, they are trained to. The usage of a social network is innocuous at first. Similarly, a person is not necessarily forced to start using narcotics to develop a dependency.
- eumenides1 8y ago
  HN is definitely an outlier for population that uses social media. I'm not trying to be edgy, but I believe it's our relationship with computers/technology that makes us this way. Computers do what we say (to our own detriment sometimes!) and we are used to parsing what the computer is telling us. We think of computers and systems as their parts and as a whole. So we are wary of computers/phones/internet by training (self or taught or nature). Because of this relationship, we have an easier path to detach ourselves from "Facebook" and simply stop. Facebook is not doing what "I" intended, cut it out. I think the general population's relationship with technology is that it tells you information and the information becomes your world. To them, it's an eye, an ear, an arm. Cutting out a body part is hard. The real kicker is that we as programmers understand Facebook wants "engagement" and that it is programmed to maximize our engagement. The general population doesn't know or understand this fact. Some of use choose to disengage because it isn't desirable behavior. Some of us don't mind/care. I think the general population (on average) understand know enough to care.
sakuronto 8y ago
I don't know how old you are and I don't want to make assumptions, but in high school and college, societies, school sports teams and friends all tend to use Facebook as their sole means of communication. As someone who refuses to make a Facebook account (on principle and because I'm really stubborn), I do feel like I'm being compelled to use social networks more than I want to.
- sebringj 8y ago
  Yes, I agree it is more a part of our civilization as an expected norm of operation. Where I differ from the author is the fact that the majority of us our very capable of controlling our behavior although we may not initially realize our pattern or be self-reflecting on how it may be detrimental.
  - loceng 8y ago
    Curious if you use ad-blocking software/extensions? Most people don't AFAIK. Curious if you let yourself be influenced by ads or not. Not a judgement call on ads, some people like being exposed to ads especially if they're targeted.
    - sebringj 8y ago
      I don't. I usually scroll/resize the window so I don't see them. I honestly don't care if they are tracking me one way or the other. If you know what the government already does, we're already screwed so its more of a statement than useful to ad block. I think if you go to the trouble of being on a TOR network then you're good but otherwise, you're fooling yourself.
Lionsion 8y ago
> This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. I think "forced to be social addicts" is a misreading of the article. I think a more accurate rephrase is that "people are manipulated to be social addicts." This essay is basically: 1. Statement of the problem, including exposure of some misleading narratives. 2. Advice to avoid being manipulated by technology and media, including but not limited to social media. 3. A heuristic for separating the media wheat from the media chaff (exploit survivorship)
- sebringj 8y ago
  Do you believe that we are manipulated to be addicts? There are real addicts with genetic reasons for being so and then there are the rest of us that can control our behavior. Our behavior can be manipulated but we are not going to be addicts from that. More of a waking up and tuning out rather than a withdrawal I would think but this isn't me arguing, just commenting as its an interesting topic and I value your input on it.
  - Lionsion 8y ago
    > Do you believe that we are manipulated to be addicts? I believe the companies do their best to try (under the banner of metric-driven "engagement"), but people experience the addiction to varying degrees, with varying degrees of disruption. Some people are certainly more susceptible than others. You see the same thing with substance addiction, an addict can vary from a fully functional smoker to a homeless meth-addict whose lost their teeth. I think this is true with social media as well. I don't think I'm too susceptible to addiction, but at times I've caught myself getting into habitual use of social media based on some of its reinforcement mechanisms.
checkyoursudo 8y ago
Most addicts of any type are not forced to become so, but that shouldn't make us less sympathetic to their situations, should it? Not many people are forced to use drugs or tobacco or alcohol or coffee etc, but they still get addicted. I don't use fb or the other attention-mongering social media sites, so I feel you in not understanding how they are so addictive. But I am pretty sure they are in fact addictive to a lot of people.
- sebringj 8y ago
  I think anything that is good or feels good has that potential of affecting behavior towards it. Using the word "addict" is a cop out to take away personal responsibility. There are true addicts so it should not be used so lightly. Mark Zuckerburg is a trail blazer, creating industries which did not exist and which no one could predict the negative outcomes. Overall, I'm sure Facebook has done much more good than bad to connect people in a positive way. If it is a net gain, then it is worth fixing, even if that fix means to completely change the technology approach using some blockchain value proposition for example for social cred that is universal and lives outside the social networks themselves.
  - senoroink 8y ago
    > Using the word "addict" is a cop out to take away personal responsibility. It's not a cop out. It's a fact. Social media can fit the exact definition of "addiction" for some people. Personal responsibility is present if you're abusing a drug or social media. From your comments, it appears you aren't affected. Great. Similar to how you probably can't relate to a heroin addict means you can't relate to a social media addict.
    - sebringj 8y ago
      Well the part that doesn't sit well with me is the suggestion of addiction in such a light flippant way. It should not be used for the general population just as a drug addiction isn't. We can empathize with true addicts but labeling the general population as such takes away personal responsibility in that people are not in control of their own behavior. That is the key difference in the point I'm making and the author. To prove my point, do you notice how quickly backlash came about to blame Facebook? People started leaving it and not using it. A true addict could not stop cold turkey so we mostly all have the ability to stop something when we do not have true addiction disorders.
cryoshon 8y ago
shrug. some people would rather be addicted and feel like they are a part of something than be independent. sure, my social life has been hurt by refraining from facebook for a decade. but there's no question i'm a stronger person for being free of the flowing river of babble that's there. now, when it comes to OTHER rivers of babble...

dkn 8y ago

They aren't forced to, they are trained to. The usage of a social network is innocuous at first. Similarly, a person is not necessarily forced to start using narcotics to develop a dependency.

eumenides1 8y ago
HN is definitely an outlier for population that uses social media. I'm not trying to be edgy, but I believe it's our relationship with computers/technology that makes us this way. Computers do what we say (to our own detriment sometimes!) and we are used to parsing what the computer is telling us. We think of computers and systems as their parts and as a whole. So we are wary of computers/phones/internet by training (self or taught or nature). Because of this relationship, we have an easier path to detach ourselves from "Facebook" and simply stop. Facebook is not doing what "I" intended, cut it out. I think the general population's relationship with technology is that it tells you information and the information becomes your world. To them, it's an eye, an ear, an arm. Cutting out a body part is hard. The real kicker is that we as programmers understand Facebook wants "engagement" and that it is programmed to maximize our engagement. The general population doesn't know or understand this fact. Some of use choose to disengage because it isn't desirable behavior. Some of us don't mind/care. I think the general population (on average) understand know enough to care.

sakuronto 8y ago

I don't know how old you are and I don't want to make assumptions, but in high school and college, societies, school sports teams and friends all tend to use Facebook as their sole means of communication. As someone who refuses to make a Facebook account (on principle and because I'm really stubborn), I do feel like I'm being compelled to use social networks more than I want to.

sebringj 8y ago
Yes, I agree it is more a part of our civilization as an expected norm of operation. Where I differ from the author is the fact that the majority of us our very capable of controlling our behavior although we may not initially realize our pattern or be self-reflecting on how it may be detrimental.
- loceng 8y ago
  Curious if you use ad-blocking software/extensions? Most people don't AFAIK. Curious if you let yourself be influenced by ads or not. Not a judgement call on ads, some people like being exposed to ads especially if they're targeted.
  - sebringj 8y ago
    I don't. I usually scroll/resize the window so I don't see them. I honestly don't care if they are tracking me one way or the other. If you know what the government already does, we're already screwed so its more of a statement than useful to ad block. I think if you go to the trouble of being on a TOR network then you're good but otherwise, you're fooling yourself.

Lionsion 8y ago

> This article makes it sound like people are forced to be social addicts. I think "forced to be social addicts" is a misreading of the article. I think a more accurate rephrase is that "people are manipulated to be social addicts." This essay is basically: 1. Statement of the problem, including exposure of some misleading narratives. 2. Advice to avoid being manipulated by technology and media, including but not limited to social media. 3. A heuristic for separating the media wheat from the media chaff (exploit survivorship)

sebringj 8y ago
Do you believe that we are manipulated to be addicts? There are real addicts with genetic reasons for being so and then there are the rest of us that can control our behavior. Our behavior can be manipulated but we are not going to be addicts from that. More of a waking up and tuning out rather than a withdrawal I would think but this isn't me arguing, just commenting as its an interesting topic and I value your input on it.
- Lionsion 8y ago
  > Do you believe that we are manipulated to be addicts? I believe the companies do their best to try (under the banner of metric-driven "engagement"), but people experience the addiction to varying degrees, with varying degrees of disruption. Some people are certainly more susceptible than others. You see the same thing with substance addiction, an addict can vary from a fully functional smoker to a homeless meth-addict whose lost their teeth. I think this is true with social media as well. I don't think I'm too susceptible to addiction, but at times I've caught myself getting into habitual use of social media based on some of its reinforcement mechanisms.

checkyoursudo 8y ago

Most addicts of any type are not forced to become so, but that shouldn't make us less sympathetic to their situations, should it? Not many people are forced to use drugs or tobacco or alcohol or coffee etc, but they still get addicted. I don't use fb or the other attention-mongering social media sites, so I feel you in not understanding how they are so addictive. But I am pretty sure they are in fact addictive to a lot of people.

sebringj 8y ago
I think anything that is good or feels good has that potential of affecting behavior towards it. Using the word "addict" is a cop out to take away personal responsibility. There are true addicts so it should not be used so lightly. Mark Zuckerburg is a trail blazer, creating industries which did not exist and which no one could predict the negative outcomes. Overall, I'm sure Facebook has done much more good than bad to connect people in a positive way. If it is a net gain, then it is worth fixing, even if that fix means to completely change the technology approach using some blockchain value proposition for example for social cred that is universal and lives outside the social networks themselves.
- senoroink 8y ago
  > Using the word "addict" is a cop out to take away personal responsibility. It's not a cop out. It's a fact. Social media can fit the exact definition of "addiction" for some people. Personal responsibility is present if you're abusing a drug or social media. From your comments, it appears you aren't affected. Great. Similar to how you probably can't relate to a heroin addict means you can't relate to a social media addict.
  - sebringj 8y ago
    Well the part that doesn't sit well with me is the suggestion of addiction in such a light flippant way. It should not be used for the general population just as a drug addiction isn't. We can empathize with true addicts but labeling the general population as such takes away personal responsibility in that people are not in control of their own behavior. That is the key difference in the point I'm making and the author. To prove my point, do you notice how quickly backlash came about to blame Facebook? People started leaving it and not using it. A true addict could not stop cold turkey so we mostly all have the ability to stop something when we do not have true addiction disorders.

cryoshon 8y ago

shrug. some people would rather be addicted and feel like they are a part of something than be independent. sure, my social life has been hurt by refraining from facebook for a decade. but there's no question i'm a stronger person for being free of the flowing river of babble that's there. now, when it comes to OTHER rivers of babble...