5 ms·

Having a single confirmation step to prevent "oops" clicks doesn't seem like a dark pattern to me.

by mysterydip 9y ago

icebraining 9y ago
Confirmation steps should only be used if the action can't be easily undone.
- jimktrains2 9y ago
  And when a user receives an email saying they've been unsubscribed because an automated system prefetched the link, they won't be concerned or worried or confused at all. (Especially when this happens _every time_.
  - tedunangst 9y ago
    And then the automated system clicks the undo link... Problem solved!
    - simcop2387 9y ago
      Which fires off a new email thanking them for re-subscribing. Soon your inbox is full.
- bartread 9y ago
  It can't be easily undone if it was "clicked" by an automated process rather than a human being.
cjrp 9y ago
The majority of people who clicked on the link did it on purpose, so a better pattern would be to make it unsubscribe immediately with a "didn't meant to unsubscribe? click here to undo" link afterwards.
- corobo 9y ago
  The thread is talking about situations where an automated system would 'click' the link though. The automated system is probably not going to go "oh oops, resubbed" You could probably automate the POST action though. Equivalent of $('#unsub-button').click() on the unsubscribe page load
- jimktrains2 9y ago
  You're making the mistake that this very article is highlighting: it's not just "people" who click links. An overzealous mail client or browser preloading links would force unsubscribe you without your knowledge or ability to undo. A single step, a button push, to confirm an unsubscription is fine.
  - criddell 9y ago
    > A single step, a button push, to confirm an unsubscription is fine. No, it really isn't. Lots of mailing lists operate exactly as the person you replied to mentioned where after unsubscribing you are given a chance to undo that action. That's a far more respectful way to operate.
    - Can_Not 9y ago
      The user isn't going to see the "Oops! I need to undo" button when their email client helps themself behind the scenes.
      - criddell 9y ago
        Yet somehow lots of places use the click-one-link-to-unsubscribe method and it seems to work. What are they doing differently? The follow up confirmation screen feels slimy to me like some kind of cable company retention tactic. That's why I called it a dark pattern.
        Can_Not 9y ago
        I don't think it's slimy. They could provide a simple, complete unsubscribe button in addition to a list of subtopics to check/uncheck. Maybe I only want to unsubscribe from their blog, or I still want to receive feature update news but not their sales catalog.
elmigranto 9y ago
Have a single "I clicked by mistake" button that resubscribes instead.
- jimktrains2 9y ago
  Yes, the automated system prefetching links will always click said button.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Not if the button issues a POST request.
    - jimktrains2 9y ago
      The button I was responding about was an "undo unsubscribe". A bot won't click that button, but may follow a link.
      - icebraining 9y ago
        Right, I assumed the button would be linked from a subsequent email confirming the unsubscription. You're right, a button in the unsubscription page doesn't help.
dumbfounder 9y ago
You are right, it doesn't seem like one, but to pissed off users it doesn't matter. If you, for any reason, piss people off to the point where they complain to your registrar or your hosting provider it is bad news. Doesn't matter why. So, the answer is to make it as easy as possible to get removed, which is why people use GET. I have seen this with spam, and I have seen it with DMCA requests. My hosting provider will issue me a warning for any DMCA request that they will shut me down within 48 hours if I don't comply. Even when it is clearly not a valid request. Even when the content has already been removed. They don't even check, they just say "do it or else". And I pay them thousands per month. Godaddy is the same way, I have had people complain to them, and then they threaten to shut down the domain. When you have been threatened repeatedly to be shut down for operating normally you don't take any chances. It isn't worth it.

Having a single confirmation step to prevent "oops" clicks doesn't seem like a dark pattern to me.

icebraining 9y ago

Confirmation steps should only be used if the action can't be easily undone.

jimktrains2 9y ago
And when a user receives an email saying they've been unsubscribed because an automated system prefetched the link, they won't be concerned or worried or confused at all. (Especially when this happens _every time_.
- tedunangst 9y ago
  And then the automated system clicks the undo link... Problem solved!
  - simcop2387 9y ago
    Which fires off a new email thanking them for re-subscribing. Soon your inbox is full.
bartread 9y ago
It can't be easily undone if it was "clicked" by an automated process rather than a human being.

cjrp 9y ago

The majority of people who clicked on the link did it on purpose, so a better pattern would be to make it unsubscribe immediately with a "didn't meant to unsubscribe? click here to undo" link afterwards.

corobo 9y ago
The thread is talking about situations where an automated system would 'click' the link though. The automated system is probably not going to go "oh oops, resubbed" You could probably automate the POST action though. Equivalent of $('#unsub-button').click() on the unsubscribe page load
jimktrains2 9y ago
You're making the mistake that this very article is highlighting: it's not just "people" who click links. An overzealous mail client or browser preloading links would force unsubscribe you without your knowledge or ability to undo. A single step, a button push, to confirm an unsubscription is fine.
- criddell 9y ago
  > A single step, a button push, to confirm an unsubscription is fine. No, it really isn't. Lots of mailing lists operate exactly as the person you replied to mentioned where after unsubscribing you are given a chance to undo that action. That's a far more respectful way to operate.
  - Can_Not 9y ago
    The user isn't going to see the "Oops! I need to undo" button when their email client helps themself behind the scenes.
    - criddell 9y ago
      Yet somehow lots of places use the click-one-link-to-unsubscribe method and it seems to work. What are they doing differently? The follow up confirmation screen feels slimy to me like some kind of cable company retention tactic. That's why I called it a dark pattern.
      - Can_Not 9y ago
        I don't think it's slimy. They could provide a simple, complete unsubscribe button in addition to a list of subtopics to check/uncheck. Maybe I only want to unsubscribe from their blog, or I still want to receive feature update news but not their sales catalog.

elmigranto 9y ago

Have a single "I clicked by mistake" button that resubscribes instead.

jimktrains2 9y ago
Yes, the automated system prefetching links will always click said button.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Not if the button issues a POST request.
  - jimktrains2 9y ago
    The button I was responding about was an "undo unsubscribe". A bot won't click that button, but may follow a link.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Right, I assumed the button would be linked from a subsequent email confirming the unsubscription. You're right, a button in the unsubscription page doesn't help.

dumbfounder 9y ago

You are right, it doesn't seem like one, but to pissed off users it doesn't matter. If you, for any reason, piss people off to the point where they complain to your registrar or your hosting provider it is bad news. Doesn't matter why. So, the answer is to make it as easy as possible to get removed, which is why people use GET. I have seen this with spam, and I have seen it with DMCA requests. My hosting provider will issue me a warning for any DMCA request that they will shut me down within 48 hours if I don't comply. Even when it is clearly not a valid request. Even when the content has already been removed. They don't even check, they just say "do it or else". And I pay them thousands per month. Godaddy is the same way, I have had people complain to them, and then they threaten to shut down the domain. When you have been threatened repeatedly to be shut down for operating normally you don't take any chances. It isn't worth it.