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The change seems immaterial to me except that it’s much clearer. The article author injects a social justice angle without describing any specific impact. Who

The change seems immaterial to me except that it’s much clearer. The article author injects a social justice angle without describing any specific impact. Who is really affected by this? Any concrete examples?

Animats 9y ago
The material part is that it's clearer. That means most such decisions don't require litigation. The result will be that blatant violations of the law get resolved fast.
- paulsutter 9y ago
  Such as? Uber seems in the clear (I direct the driver not Uber), I cant think of any material cases where this matters By the way, that’s really good for Uber drivers. If they had to be employees they would get paid less and couldn’t deduct many expenses
  - siegel 9y ago
    Not exactly. The prior test used in California already looked at who had the right to control or direct the work of the putative contractor. The new test requires the company to prove that it does not fundamentally control or direct the performance of work, as well as prove that the other 2 factors of the ABC test also do not apply.
mabbo 9y ago
FedEx, UPS, Amazon Logistics, basically every delivery company. Everyone in delivery these days is an "independent contractor" with no control over their route or hours, working for a business that does nothing but deliveries.
- PhantomGremlin 9y ago
  FedEx, UPS, Amazon Logistics, basically every delivery company. I don't know about the rest of them, but your information is totally wrong about UPS. The "delivery" people are most definitely employees. Union employees, Teamsters in fact. Which means that UPS doesn't get to push them around all that easily. But which also means that the relationship is occasionally more confrontational than it should be. https://teamster.org/divisions/package https://teamster.org/divisions/package
  - mabbo 9y ago
    Huh, my mistake. Well, Amazon Logistics it certainly going to be in trouble. Dynamex works on a very similar model to them.
  - jp10558 9y ago
    Interestingly enough, at least around here, UPS is also the best delivery company. Decent prices, can get daily pickups, delivers on time, drives a company truck. Half the time with FedEx you have no idea why a random truck is stopping to drop off a package. We also at my office always have to call them to do any pickup, the UPS guy just grabs outgoing when it delivers the incoming.
    - PhantomGremlin 9y ago
      Half the time with FedEx you have no idea why a random truck is stopping to drop off a package. Which "FedEx" do you mean? That's the problem with them, there are multiple entities sharing the name. FedEx Ground was an acquisition and re-branding. They operate using "independent business owners". Want to deliver packages? Buy a route! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Ground https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Ground https://fitsmallbusiness.com/fedex-routes-for-sale/ https://fitsmallbusiness.com/fedex-routes-for-sale/

Animats 9y ago

The material part is that it's clearer. That means most such decisions don't require litigation. The result will be that blatant violations of the law get resolved fast.

paulsutter 9y ago
Such as? Uber seems in the clear (I direct the driver not Uber), I cant think of any material cases where this matters By the way, that’s really good for Uber drivers. If they had to be employees they would get paid less and couldn’t deduct many expenses
- siegel 9y ago
  Not exactly. The prior test used in California already looked at who had the right to control or direct the work of the putative contractor. The new test requires the company to prove that it does not fundamentally control or direct the performance of work, as well as prove that the other 2 factors of the ABC test also do not apply.

mabbo 9y ago

FedEx, UPS, Amazon Logistics, basically every delivery company. Everyone in delivery these days is an "independent contractor" with no control over their route or hours, working for a business that does nothing but deliveries.

PhantomGremlin 9y ago
FedEx, UPS, Amazon Logistics, basically every delivery company. I don't know about the rest of them, but your information is totally wrong about UPS. The "delivery" people are most definitely employees. Union employees, Teamsters in fact. Which means that UPS doesn't get to push them around all that easily. But which also means that the relationship is occasionally more confrontational than it should be. https://teamster.org/divisions/package https://teamster.org/divisions/package
- mabbo 9y ago
  Huh, my mistake. Well, Amazon Logistics it certainly going to be in trouble. Dynamex works on a very similar model to them.
- jp10558 9y ago
  Interestingly enough, at least around here, UPS is also the best delivery company. Decent prices, can get daily pickups, delivers on time, drives a company truck. Half the time with FedEx you have no idea why a random truck is stopping to drop off a package. We also at my office always have to call them to do any pickup, the UPS guy just grabs outgoing when it delivers the incoming.
  - PhantomGremlin 9y ago
    Half the time with FedEx you have no idea why a random truck is stopping to drop off a package. Which "FedEx" do you mean? That's the problem with them, there are multiple entities sharing the name. FedEx Ground was an acquisition and re-branding. They operate using "independent business owners". Want to deliver packages? Buy a route! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Ground https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Ground https://fitsmallbusiness.com/fedex-routes-for-sale/ https://fitsmallbusiness.com/fedex-routes-for-sale/