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A friend of mine left a profitable company because he was tired of dealing with offshore engineers. The company's strategy was to have a few people in the USA

A friend of mine left a profitable company because he was tired of dealing with offshore engineers. The company's strategy was to have a few people in the USA and have other work done for cheap in India; where they got what they paid for...

sokoloff 9y ago
If you try to scrape the bottom of the barrel pay-wise, you’re making the wager that someone good enough to write solid code doesn’t know enough math to know that they could get a 3-5x raise by going to a company paying a locally competitive wage. We get excellent results overall from our teams in India, but we also pay quite a bit over the bottom of the market there...
- originalsimba 9y ago
  > If you try to scrape the bottom of the barrel pay-wise, you’re making the wager that someone good enough to write solid code doesn’t know enough math to know This, you nailed it and honestly what else matters. 100% of "offshore labor" and "india labor" and whatever is about exploiting people for personal gain. It's short-sighted selfish greedy Americans mostly, and they honestly believe that brown people living in other countries exist to be their slave labor. These same people are the ones who are constantly trying to abuse the "intern" program. If you hire someone in India for $20/hr to do a job you damn well know is worth $100/hr then you're a ....ing ....ole. Every time I see job postings looking to exploit third world labor markets, I hope those underpaid developers burn the employer's entire operation to the ground. It's not enough to bear witness to evil. We should be taking action to stop it.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    I believe there's a wide middle ground where qualified developers in India can do excellent work, for a well-above Indian average salary, for American companies, and where the American company can get excellent talent for cheaper than state-side. Everyone is made better off when the American company decides to make this type of hire versus hiring no one. The companies trying to hire/exploit developers for 8-10 Lakh are going to have a way worse experience than those trying to hire developers for 35 or 50 Lakh (and they deserve the experience, IMO).
    - originalsimba 8y ago
      > for a well-above Indian average salary In other words, you think it's okay to exploit people? If you're writing software for a global corporation on a global marketplace (The internet), why would it be acceptable to be paid based on regional politics, which is what local economies are reflective of.? Especially considering the politics of third world nations is manipulated and controlled by the governments of first world nations for profitable gains. No, the only acceptable answer is to pay all developers equally regardless of region, based only on their capability, and perhaps their investment of time and effort into their own improvement. The Pre-Internet Planet Earth and all the little tricks that our ancestors injected to make it easier to take advantage of less fortunate people needs to end. Their guilt isn't yours until you decide to ignore your morality so you can make a few easier bucks. You cannot be a willing and informed participant in this systemic evil and pretend that it's anything but.
      - sokoloff 8y ago
        Just as we pay relevant to local markets in Prague, Barcelona, Zurich, Boston, and Seattle, we also reference local markets in India. (We don't only reference local markets when it suits us.) Unless you take the view that all profitable employers exploit their employees (a view that I understand but do not share nor agree with), I don't believe that we're unfairly nor inappropriately exploiting our talent in any of our locations. We seek to make a profit above the cost of our inputs (including risk premium) and I'm not ashamed of what we pay our employees in any of our markets anywhere in the world. If you choose to pay your employees using a different system, I support your right to do so.
        originalsimba 8y ago
        So... yes? I guess I'm challenging you to justify this policy without naming greed as your justification. You are exploiting people for what amounts to slave labor. You're saying that because someone has the unfortunate luck of being born in a third world country that they deserve a smaller salary than you. Admitting that you are not ashamed of yourself for exploiting poor people for cheap labor I mean.. what else is there to say I guess.

sokoloff 9y ago

If you try to scrape the bottom of the barrel pay-wise, you’re making the wager that someone good enough to write solid code doesn’t know enough math to know that they could get a 3-5x raise by going to a company paying a locally competitive wage. We get excellent results overall from our teams in India, but we also pay quite a bit over the bottom of the market there...

originalsimba 9y ago
> If you try to scrape the bottom of the barrel pay-wise, you’re making the wager that someone good enough to write solid code doesn’t know enough math to know This, you nailed it and honestly what else matters. 100% of "offshore labor" and "india labor" and whatever is about exploiting people for personal gain. It's short-sighted selfish greedy Americans mostly, and they honestly believe that brown people living in other countries exist to be their slave labor. These same people are the ones who are constantly trying to abuse the "intern" program. If you hire someone in India for $20/hr to do a job you damn well know is worth $100/hr then you're a ....ing ....ole. Every time I see job postings looking to exploit third world labor markets, I hope those underpaid developers burn the employer's entire operation to the ground. It's not enough to bear witness to evil. We should be taking action to stop it.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  I believe there's a wide middle ground where qualified developers in India can do excellent work, for a well-above Indian average salary, for American companies, and where the American company can get excellent talent for cheaper than state-side. Everyone is made better off when the American company decides to make this type of hire versus hiring no one. The companies trying to hire/exploit developers for 8-10 Lakh are going to have a way worse experience than those trying to hire developers for 35 or 50 Lakh (and they deserve the experience, IMO).
  - originalsimba 8y ago
    > for a well-above Indian average salary In other words, you think it's okay to exploit people? If you're writing software for a global corporation on a global marketplace (The internet), why would it be acceptable to be paid based on regional politics, which is what local economies are reflective of.? Especially considering the politics of third world nations is manipulated and controlled by the governments of first world nations for profitable gains. No, the only acceptable answer is to pay all developers equally regardless of region, based only on their capability, and perhaps their investment of time and effort into their own improvement. The Pre-Internet Planet Earth and all the little tricks that our ancestors injected to make it easier to take advantage of less fortunate people needs to end. Their guilt isn't yours until you decide to ignore your morality so you can make a few easier bucks. You cannot be a willing and informed participant in this systemic evil and pretend that it's anything but.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      Just as we pay relevant to local markets in Prague, Barcelona, Zurich, Boston, and Seattle, we also reference local markets in India. (We don't only reference local markets when it suits us.) Unless you take the view that all profitable employers exploit their employees (a view that I understand but do not share nor agree with), I don't believe that we're unfairly nor inappropriately exploiting our talent in any of our locations. We seek to make a profit above the cost of our inputs (including risk premium) and I'm not ashamed of what we pay our employees in any of our markets anywhere in the world. If you choose to pay your employees using a different system, I support your right to do so.
      - originalsimba 8y ago
        So... yes? I guess I'm challenging you to justify this policy without naming greed as your justification. You are exploiting people for what amounts to slave labor. You're saying that because someone has the unfortunate luck of being born in a third world country that they deserve a smaller salary than you. Admitting that you are not ashamed of yourself for exploiting poor people for cheap labor I mean.. what else is there to say I guess.