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I'm saddened by this new, but more so for Android. WhatsApp was my main counterpoint for anyone using iMessage as a trump card for getting an iPhone with its e

I'm saddened by this new, but more so for Android. WhatsApp was my main counterpoint for anyone using iMessage as a trump card for getting an iPhone with its end-to-end encryption and the status indicator that the other user is typing something.

pmontra 8y ago
I guess that people buy iPhones because they want iPhones, not because of iMessage, at least here in Europe. If they would insist in using only iMessage they would message only a few of their friends. Everybody I know uses WhatsApp, both on iPhones and Androids and only one person ever bothered to confirm the certificate for the end to end encryption. We did it because both of us are tech guys. It's definitely not at the top of the priorities of the average person.
- abhishekjha 8y ago
  >ever bothered to confirm the certificate for the end to end encryption. Wait, you need to do that manually? Most of times whatsapp just tells me that somebody's keys has changed and that's all.
  - pmontra 8y ago
    You have to verify the key. In the chat with a friend, tap the three dots menu, View contact, Encryption. You see that the description ends with Tap to verify. Tap. You get a QR code that your friend must scan. Now you know that you're encrypting the messages with your keys and nobody is MITMing you. You have to do it again when somebody reistalls whatsapp or moves to anothwr phone. If it's you, you have to do it for everyone. Guess why so few people does it. Also, the GUI does very little to direct people to verify the keys and confirm that the communication channel is safe.
cft 8y ago
Use Telegram. Russia blocked it since they refused to hand over private keys to the government. Interestingly they never blocked WhatsApp.
- habitue 8y ago
  The way Whatsapp encryption works, they don't have the keys to hand over. Telegram is unique in its state-vulnerable encryption implementation
  - abhishekjha 8y ago
    >The way Whatsapp encryption works, they don't have the keys to hand over. Is this by design or can they be forced by fb to give up the keys which gets stored in the server and still keep functioning? As far as I am aware its the phones which generate and maintain the keys.
  - sfifs 8y ago
    This is incorrect. WhatsApp encryption keys are managed on server and hence can be MITMed on state warrants quite easily by WhatsApp unless you are very careful to follow key changes and verify keys physically - and even then how would you know since it's WhatsApp app that is showing the key, and not something you generated independently out of band with a different program. What the encryption does is prevent non state level actors from breaking into your conversations.
- 05 8y ago
  Yeah, use a messenger with E2E off by default, no multi-device E2E sync and questionable crypto..
PunchTornado 8y ago
yeah, everybody that I know uses whatsup on iphone. never used iMessenger. whatsup is so popular in europe regardless of platform.
- sgt 8y ago
  It's called iMessage. I suppose it's about who your friends are. I use iMessage extensively with my family and most of my friends in Europe. I don't think I have a single family member without an iPhone.

pmontra 8y ago

I guess that people buy iPhones because they want iPhones, not because of iMessage, at least here in Europe. If they would insist in using only iMessage they would message only a few of their friends. Everybody I know uses WhatsApp, both on iPhones and Androids and only one person ever bothered to confirm the certificate for the end to end encryption. We did it because both of us are tech guys. It's definitely not at the top of the priorities of the average person.

abhishekjha 8y ago
>ever bothered to confirm the certificate for the end to end encryption. Wait, you need to do that manually? Most of times whatsapp just tells me that somebody's keys has changed and that's all.
- pmontra 8y ago
  You have to verify the key. In the chat with a friend, tap the three dots menu, View contact, Encryption. You see that the description ends with Tap to verify. Tap. You get a QR code that your friend must scan. Now you know that you're encrypting the messages with your keys and nobody is MITMing you. You have to do it again when somebody reistalls whatsapp or moves to anothwr phone. If it's you, you have to do it for everyone. Guess why so few people does it. Also, the GUI does very little to direct people to verify the keys and confirm that the communication channel is safe.

cft 8y ago

Use Telegram. Russia blocked it since they refused to hand over private keys to the government. Interestingly they never blocked WhatsApp.

habitue 8y ago
The way Whatsapp encryption works, they don't have the keys to hand over. Telegram is unique in its state-vulnerable encryption implementation
- abhishekjha 8y ago
  >The way Whatsapp encryption works, they don't have the keys to hand over. Is this by design or can they be forced by fb to give up the keys which gets stored in the server and still keep functioning? As far as I am aware its the phones which generate and maintain the keys.
- sfifs 8y ago
  This is incorrect. WhatsApp encryption keys are managed on server and hence can be MITMed on state warrants quite easily by WhatsApp unless you are very careful to follow key changes and verify keys physically - and even then how would you know since it's WhatsApp app that is showing the key, and not something you generated independently out of band with a different program. What the encryption does is prevent non state level actors from breaking into your conversations.
05 8y ago
Yeah, use a messenger with E2E off by default, no multi-device E2E sync and questionable crypto..

PunchTornado 8y ago

yeah, everybody that I know uses whatsup on iphone. never used iMessenger. whatsup is so popular in europe regardless of platform.

sgt 8y ago
It's called iMessage. I suppose it's about who your friends are. I use iMessage extensively with my family and most of my friends in Europe. I don't think I have a single family member without an iPhone.