4 ms·

> Since Republicans gained control of the House of Representatives in 2010, their partisan attacks have left the IRS with nearly 10,000 fewer customer service r

> Since Republicans gained control of the House of Representatives in 2010, their partisan attacks have left the IRS with nearly 10,000 fewer customer service representatives to assist taxpayers and a patchwork of IT systems, some dating back to the Kennedy Administration, which is ultimately harming all taxpayers,” Rep. Gerry Connolly, D-Va., told Nextgov. So the patchwork 1960s-era systems are the fault of Republicans in the current decade? Maybe "starve the beast" really is a better approach. Nothing else has worked.

TallGuyShort 9y ago
Their customer service reps sucked long before 2010 and have never remotely "assisted" me.
- hcknwscommenter 9y ago
  My experience differs from yours. I have used IRS customer service five different times over the last two decades and each time they have been courteous, efficient, and helpful.
wvenable 9y ago
https://federalnewsradio.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/irs-clutches-its-modernization-holy-grail/ https://federalnewsradio.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/ir...
SiempreViernes 9y ago
If you look again, you will see the charge is that there are now 10k fewer first line support workers who previously could help citizens and (for some reason) the legacy hardware.
briandear 9y ago
The real question is why we have a tax system that would need 10,000 additional customer support reps. The problem isn’t a lack of reps, it’s a system that requires that many reps. The flat tax, file-on-a-postcard system proposed by 2016 presidential candidate Ted Cruz was mocked by the establishment because it seemed tha politicians on both sides have a vested interest in a complex tax code — it is the means by which politicians derive their power. See Milton Freidman on the subject: https://youtu.be/TruCIPy79w8 https://youtu.be/TruCIPy79w8
- hcknwscommenter 9y ago
  File on a postcard. Sure. This year, I could have used the 1040EZ (the entirety of which could fit on a post card if you removed the embedded instructions), and left some money on the table, so I chose the more complicated route. Last year, I just used the 1040EZ. Flat tax is a completely different issue.
- SiempreViernes 9y ago
  It is weird to see the argument that making tax filingd hard builds power, for it to work you have to dismiss the inuitive idead that making tax filing simpler will make citizens happy and less likely to complain since they have beens spared from some hassle.
- monocasa 9y ago
  You can stay away from regressive schemes like a flat tax, and have a tax system with a rubberstamp level of UX. That's how it works in most of Europe and could work here. The IRS already has all of the information needed outside of gambling and stocks, and could simply send you forms already filled out for you to sign. H&R Block and TurboTax simply heavily lobby to keep this from happening to keep their business model around.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    Whats interesting about the flat taxes is that it makes it hard to avoid at the highest levels, where complex tax structures end up having a very variant level of taxation. Much like corporate taxation is 35%, but google or facebook pay only 11%. Milton Friedman used to say that a flat tax of 15% would be enough to replace the entire scheme of income tax. There is also one major boon: lots of capital is spent on taxes, from accountants to lawyers to gubernamental organizations, etc etc. An effective 15% rate without exemptions would fly very well with the right (simple flat taxes) an the left (no exemptions) but as MF said, the political stances on this topic dont trust each other and they are both right: even if we moved to such a system, the right would still advocate for exemptions and the left for increases in taxation. Its a noticeable deadlock. I also want to mention that flat taxes are not regressive by definition. The progressiveness or regressiveness in that case requires to see where the taxes are spent.
hcknwscommenter 9y ago
>So the patchwork 1960s-era systems You have (purposely?) mis-stated the previous statement quoted above. A patchwork of systems that includes some systems dating back to the Kennedy Administration is not the same as a patchwork of 1960'era systems. Could it be that the "starve the best" mentality hindered or blocked a number of planned migrations/upgrades?
hindsightbias 9y ago
I worked next to a team in the late 80's where one service center prototyped a wage reporting program that brought in >$150m the first year. They asked for $2M to expand it nationwide. Refused until Clinton came in. It's easy to throw stones but I doubt anything built today by anyone on HN will rival problems as complex as DEWS, ATC, IMF/BMF or Sabre and be around in ten years, let alone 60.

TallGuyShort 9y ago

Their customer service reps sucked long before 2010 and have never remotely "assisted" me.

hcknwscommenter 9y ago
My experience differs from yours. I have used IRS customer service five different times over the last two decades and each time they have been courteous, efficient, and helpful.

wvenable 9y ago

https://federalnewsradio.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/irs-clutches-its-modernization-holy-grail/ https://federalnewsradio.com/tom-temin-commentary/2018/01/ir...

SiempreViernes 9y ago

If you look again, you will see the charge is that there are now 10k fewer first line support workers who previously could help citizens and (for some reason) the legacy hardware.

briandear 9y ago

The real question is why we have a tax system that would need 10,000 additional customer support reps. The problem isn’t a lack of reps, it’s a system that requires that many reps. The flat tax, file-on-a-postcard system proposed by 2016 presidential candidate Ted Cruz was mocked by the establishment because it seemed tha politicians on both sides have a vested interest in a complex tax code — it is the means by which politicians derive their power. See Milton Freidman on the subject: https://youtu.be/TruCIPy79w8 https://youtu.be/TruCIPy79w8

hcknwscommenter 9y ago
File on a postcard. Sure. This year, I could have used the 1040EZ (the entirety of which could fit on a post card if you removed the embedded instructions), and left some money on the table, so I chose the more complicated route. Last year, I just used the 1040EZ. Flat tax is a completely different issue.
SiempreViernes 9y ago
It is weird to see the argument that making tax filingd hard builds power, for it to work you have to dismiss the inuitive idead that making tax filing simpler will make citizens happy and less likely to complain since they have beens spared from some hassle.
monocasa 9y ago
You can stay away from regressive schemes like a flat tax, and have a tax system with a rubberstamp level of UX. That's how it works in most of Europe and could work here. The IRS already has all of the information needed outside of gambling and stocks, and could simply send you forms already filled out for you to sign. H&R Block and TurboTax simply heavily lobby to keep this from happening to keep their business model around.
- conanbatt 9y ago
  Whats interesting about the flat taxes is that it makes it hard to avoid at the highest levels, where complex tax structures end up having a very variant level of taxation. Much like corporate taxation is 35%, but google or facebook pay only 11%. Milton Friedman used to say that a flat tax of 15% would be enough to replace the entire scheme of income tax. There is also one major boon: lots of capital is spent on taxes, from accountants to lawyers to gubernamental organizations, etc etc. An effective 15% rate without exemptions would fly very well with the right (simple flat taxes) an the left (no exemptions) but as MF said, the political stances on this topic dont trust each other and they are both right: even if we moved to such a system, the right would still advocate for exemptions and the left for increases in taxation. Its a noticeable deadlock. I also want to mention that flat taxes are not regressive by definition. The progressiveness or regressiveness in that case requires to see where the taxes are spent.

hcknwscommenter 9y ago

>So the patchwork 1960s-era systems You have (purposely?) mis-stated the previous statement quoted above. A patchwork of systems that includes some systems dating back to the Kennedy Administration is not the same as a patchwork of 1960'era systems. Could it be that the "starve the best" mentality hindered or blocked a number of planned migrations/upgrades?

hindsightbias 9y ago

I worked next to a team in the late 80's where one service center prototyped a wage reporting program that brought in >$150m the first year. They asked for $2M to expand it nationwide. Refused until Clinton came in. It's easy to throw stones but I doubt anything built today by anyone on HN will rival problems as complex as DEWS, ATC, IMF/BMF or Sabre and be around in ten years, let alone 60.