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Hey everyone -- Matt here. Not quite sure why this is news; we've been discussing telemetry for a long[1] time[2]. I haven't actually watched the video becaus

by mholt 9y ago

Hey everyone -- Matt here. Not quite sure why this is news; we've been discussing telemetry for a long[1] time[2]. I haven't actually watched the video because I've been really busy finishing my last semester of graduate school and switching research labs to start my masters thesis this week. Several of us in the research community have agreed that telemetry can be a net good for the Web. Similar to how Firefox, the privacy-focused browser, has telemetry on by default to help improve the Web. A huge thanks to everyone who contributes to Caddy and makes it -- in my opinion -- one of the best, easiest-to-use web servers around. We have over 200 contributors and it is amazing what the open source community has pulled together, despite the growing pains we faced last year [3]. I hope you love using Caddy, and if you don't, you don't have to use it. [1]: https://caddy.community/t/caddy-0-11-will-have-telemetry-discuss/3610?u=matt https://caddy.community/t/caddy-0-11-will-have-telemetry-dis... [2]: https://caddy.community/t/the-caddy-telemetry-project/3224?u=matt https://caddy.community/t/the-caddy-telemetry-project/3224?u... [3]: https://caddy.community/t/the-realities-of-being-a-foss-maintainer/2728?u=matt https://caddy.community/t/the-realities-of-being-a-foss-main...

shevegen 8y ago
> Similar to how Firefox, the privacy-focused browser, > has telemetry on by default to help improve This is just Mozilla propaganda. See how they inject and use Google anti-privacy to spy on people. https://twitter.com/nicolaspetton/status/884694176515936256?lang=en https://twitter.com/nicolaspetton/status/884694176515936256?... They use telemetry to spy on people, allegedly to "improve their products" but god knows what they do with this mass surveillance data. Since Google also pays to Mozilla (funding agreement; I don't know the actual percentage share but it is a LOT), Mozilla is dependent on Google. So we have a network of spying going on here, with Evil corporations and Evil organizations claiming that they "only spy for the greater good". > I hope you love using Caddy, and if you don't, > you don't have to use it. I don't use it, but the topic of privacy, spying, net neutrality etc.. is important. Why should we accept any organization that spies on people, no matter how they call it? Be it "telemetry" or any other fancy propaganda term that is coined by them for this malicious activity.
neflabs 9y ago
Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.
- jonathanoliver 9y ago
  I'm confused. If telemetry is an option and you can opt out, why not just do that? Also, because everything is open source, you're welcome to inspect the source to verify that it's behaving as expected and not reporting telemetry. You mentioned that you're not a Go programmer and/or you don't have time to do this...okay, so pay someone else who is a Go programmer to do this for you. Or is any software that costs money too much? Matt has a right, as the creator of that work, to ask for some form of compensation for the portion of his life invested into the project. It's a completely fair and reasonable request. If you're set on avoiding any form of compensation (financial or otherwise), then you don't have any rights to demand anything from him. Just go use nginx and be done with it.
  - neflabs 9y ago
    You're conflating two issues. If Matt wants money, we're happy to pay. That's a separate issue from telemetry. We don't want a) a sole developer making decisions which the community has rejected, and b) software which sends telemetry by default.
    - jonathanoliver 9y ago
      If Matt feels that having telemetry on by default is the form of compensation he would like for his time/investment, I don't see that as a problem. I can see that different people would take exception to that which is why there's an off switch for telemetry. If you're having a difficult time accepting that telemetry exists at all, then I'm almost certain Matt would be happy to create a non-telemetry version for paid subscribers.
    - gus_massa 9y ago
      > a) a sole developer making decisions which the community has rejected Have you run a poll to be sure that >50% of the community rejects the change? Anyway, online polls are not reliable, it's difficult to be avoid sock puppets, people that don't use the software, ensure that people that disagree with your proposal care to vote, ... Just make a fork and if most of the community agree with you, your fork will be most popular and shadow the original.
cjcampbell 9y ago
I haven’t used Caddy myself and am not prepared to weigh in on the telemetry discussion, but I still think you deserve a thank you for such a sizeable contribution to the open source community!

by mholt 9y ago

shevegen 8y ago

> Similar to how Firefox, the privacy-focused browser, > has telemetry on by default to help improve This is just Mozilla propaganda. See how they inject and use Google anti-privacy to spy on people. https://twitter.com/nicolaspetton/status/884694176515936256?lang=en https://twitter.com/nicolaspetton/status/884694176515936256?... They use telemetry to spy on people, allegedly to "improve their products" but god knows what they do with this mass surveillance data. Since Google also pays to Mozilla (funding agreement; I don't know the actual percentage share but it is a LOT), Mozilla is dependent on Google. So we have a network of spying going on here, with Evil corporations and Evil organizations claiming that they "only spy for the greater good". > I hope you love using Caddy, and if you don't, > you don't have to use it. I don't use it, but the topic of privacy, spying, net neutrality etc.. is important. Why should we accept any organization that spies on people, no matter how they call it? Be it "telemetry" or any other fancy propaganda term that is coined by them for this malicious activity.

neflabs 9y ago

Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.

jonathanoliver 9y ago
I'm confused. If telemetry is an option and you can opt out, why not just do that? Also, because everything is open source, you're welcome to inspect the source to verify that it's behaving as expected and not reporting telemetry. You mentioned that you're not a Go programmer and/or you don't have time to do this...okay, so pay someone else who is a Go programmer to do this for you. Or is any software that costs money too much? Matt has a right, as the creator of that work, to ask for some form of compensation for the portion of his life invested into the project. It's a completely fair and reasonable request. If you're set on avoiding any form of compensation (financial or otherwise), then you don't have any rights to demand anything from him. Just go use nginx and be done with it.
- neflabs 9y ago
  You're conflating two issues. If Matt wants money, we're happy to pay. That's a separate issue from telemetry. We don't want a) a sole developer making decisions which the community has rejected, and b) software which sends telemetry by default.
  - jonathanoliver 9y ago
    If Matt feels that having telemetry on by default is the form of compensation he would like for his time/investment, I don't see that as a problem. I can see that different people would take exception to that which is why there's an off switch for telemetry. If you're having a difficult time accepting that telemetry exists at all, then I'm almost certain Matt would be happy to create a non-telemetry version for paid subscribers.
  - gus_massa 9y ago
    > a) a sole developer making decisions which the community has rejected Have you run a poll to be sure that >50% of the community rejects the change? Anyway, online polls are not reliable, it's difficult to be avoid sock puppets, people that don't use the software, ensure that people that disagree with your proposal care to vote, ... Just make a fork and if most of the community agree with you, your fork will be most popular and shadow the original.

cjcampbell 9y ago

I haven’t used Caddy myself and am not prepared to weigh in on the telemetry discussion, but I still think you deserve a thank you for such a sizeable contribution to the open source community!