8 ms·

gosh what the tech industry could accomplish with a union...the excuse I always hear is "but we have it so well! why do we need to organize?!". Organize for th

gosh what the tech industry could accomplish with a union...the excuse I always hear is "but we have it so well! why do we need to organize?!". Organize for the people that clean your office space, organize for marginalized peoples, organize to make the world a better place, not just your industry. Think what would happen if AWS was without site reliability for 72 hours.

MPSimmons 9y ago
The only thing that highly technical workers dislike more than meeting in real life with each other is having someone tell them what they can and can't do. Unions aren't really compatible with the mindset in Tech today, in my experience knowing people. Small movements start, bikeshedding happens, and everything fractures.
- geodel 9y ago
  Well, theoretically Google employees can Unionize but theoretically Google can also spin out half dozen labs as separate companies and buy technology at exorbitant rates. Meanwhile union employees will get paid union rates which I am thinking won't be too high.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    Depends on the deal. My cousin is a state police sergeant. He makes as much as a director level employee in most areas. My sister in law is a unionized nurse practitioner. Unionization raised her salary a bit, but most importantly stabilized her schedule.
Tehchops 9y ago
Oh not this deceased equine again. Is /r/sysadmin leaking? >gosh what the tech industry could accomplish with a union Much less than it does now. I've had odd jobs at union places. I know career workers in union-dominated industries. We don't want it within 10 miles of tech. A fun thought experiment I ask people to do that usually puts this one to bed: Imagine the most useless, technically incompetent, lazy sack of flesh that you were unfortunate enough to share the title of "engineer" with(and office space too). In a union, they'd be very nearly impossible to fire, and based on tenure would probably make more than most of their peers. Multiply ^^ said scenario over multiple tech companies and a few thousand workers, and see what happens.
- ddorian43 9y ago
  Why doesnt that happen enough in current unionizes jobs ?
  - mkirklions 9y ago
    This does happen in current union jobs. There is a reason for outsourcing, and its not just cost.
- tway2888888 9y ago
  >Imagine the most useless, technically incompetent, lazy sack of flesh that you were unfortunate enough to share the title of "engineer" with(and office space too). In a union, they'd be very nearly impossible to fire, and based on tenure would probably make more than most of their peers. I worked 4 years in a Canadian Auto Workers unionized plant. This is not my experience, whatsoever. If you do your job, you can't be fired because you rub your manager the wrong way (imagine that?). If you don't, there's a process to fire employees. A union is just that: a union of people. If you're a cancerous employee, the union doesn't want to work with you either.
mkirklions 9y ago
Our engineeers had the opportunity to unionize. We had a fantastic team and boss. Everyone wanted us to be non-union. Then... The union factory people demanded we joined the union. We became a heated center of debate despite 0 of us wanting to join the union. We survived, and I get paid for lunches!(they dont)
forgottenpass 9y ago
>organize to make the world a better place I'm terrified of labor organization specifically because of vague and ill-defined goals. Without a well defined purpose, the goal of an organization turns to self-perpetuation, and can do so at the expense of members. Of the reasons to organize, the most convincing to me is an ethical opposition to abusing the time, privacy, and mental state of users who have no practical option but to trust the tools we build. Get a critical mass to build and commit to specific and articulate goals. On screen and upfront. Then, and only then, will I entertain the idea of a union to implement it.

MPSimmons 9y ago

The only thing that highly technical workers dislike more than meeting in real life with each other is having someone tell them what they can and can't do. Unions aren't really compatible with the mindset in Tech today, in my experience knowing people. Small movements start, bikeshedding happens, and everything fractures.

geodel 9y ago
Well, theoretically Google employees can Unionize but theoretically Google can also spin out half dozen labs as separate companies and buy technology at exorbitant rates. Meanwhile union employees will get paid union rates which I am thinking won't be too high.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Depends on the deal. My cousin is a state police sergeant. He makes as much as a director level employee in most areas. My sister in law is a unionized nurse practitioner. Unionization raised her salary a bit, but most importantly stabilized her schedule.

Tehchops 9y ago

Oh not this deceased equine again. Is /r/sysadmin leaking? >gosh what the tech industry could accomplish with a union Much less than it does now. I've had odd jobs at union places. I know career workers in union-dominated industries. We don't want it within 10 miles of tech. A fun thought experiment I ask people to do that usually puts this one to bed: Imagine the most useless, technically incompetent, lazy sack of flesh that you were unfortunate enough to share the title of "engineer" with(and office space too). In a union, they'd be very nearly impossible to fire, and based on tenure would probably make more than most of their peers. Multiply ^^ said scenario over multiple tech companies and a few thousand workers, and see what happens.

ddorian43 9y ago
Why doesnt that happen enough in current unionizes jobs ?
- mkirklions 9y ago
  This does happen in current union jobs. There is a reason for outsourcing, and its not just cost.
tway2888888 9y ago
>Imagine the most useless, technically incompetent, lazy sack of flesh that you were unfortunate enough to share the title of "engineer" with(and office space too). In a union, they'd be very nearly impossible to fire, and based on tenure would probably make more than most of their peers. I worked 4 years in a Canadian Auto Workers unionized plant. This is not my experience, whatsoever. If you do your job, you can't be fired because you rub your manager the wrong way (imagine that?). If you don't, there's a process to fire employees. A union is just that: a union of people. If you're a cancerous employee, the union doesn't want to work with you either.

mkirklions 9y ago

Our engineeers had the opportunity to unionize. We had a fantastic team and boss. Everyone wanted us to be non-union. Then... The union factory people demanded we joined the union. We became a heated center of debate despite 0 of us wanting to join the union. We survived, and I get paid for lunches!(they dont)

forgottenpass 9y ago

>organize to make the world a better place I'm terrified of labor organization specifically because of vague and ill-defined goals. Without a well defined purpose, the goal of an organization turns to self-perpetuation, and can do so at the expense of members. Of the reasons to organize, the most convincing to me is an ethical opposition to abusing the time, privacy, and mental state of users who have no practical option but to trust the tools we build. Get a critical mass to build and commit to specific and articulate goals. On screen and upfront. Then, and only then, will I entertain the idea of a union to implement it.