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People die when a civil engineer messes up. Most people don't die from a website.

by sb8244 8y ago

arnoooooo 8y ago
That does not mean that software has no real world consequences. Otherwise, why would people be building software ? There's a reason companies which are 100% software can be valued in the billions of dollars. Their software has huge, very real consequences.
- sb8244 8y ago
  Of course software has consequences. Not the same as infrastructure of countries though. Companies are valued at billions not because of life and death risks but usually because it enables other companies to make money. On the other hand, basically everything done in civil engineering could be seen as having real danger implications. Bridges and tunnels of course, but even roads which can wash out and cause harm.
- sturgill 8y ago
  Also their marginal cost of delivery approaches zero. High fixed costs in creating the software and almost negligible marginal costs. The return on capital can be astronomical. Online services have “real consequences.” But not of the type as goods in the physical world. PCI and HIPAA have tried to mitigate against some of the most egregious crossovers of failed software. GDPR scares me. Not in the “I don’t like the consequences” but in the “I don’t know what this does and how screwed I might be.” I’m very happy to be on the other side of the pond where I can safely observe the fallout. Feels like buying a first generation Apple device: I’ll wait a few years and let the early adopters go through the pain for me...
ghthor 8y ago
What if the software we interact with causes stress? Stress kills, just not in the same visible way as a bridge falling down.
- sb8244 8y ago
  That is going to affect how it's regulated. I'm just pointing out the comparison is not right.
mrtksn 8y ago
Really depends on the mess up. You mess up and leak confidential info to an ex-boyfriend? Well, here you are contributing to the stats of women killed by their partners. If software didn't have strong real-world implications the entire software market would have been just a subset of the gaming market. I'm not a regulations fan but for me, it feels simply like something obvious materializing.
- sb8244 8y ago
  I think it's important to look at how many programs fall to risks like that. Where is the cutoff where we regulate the whole industry due to a very very small possibility of issue? Food safety, for instance, can affect everyone because bacteria can be anywhere and a lapse in safety practices has a high chance of public sickness. I do think some software should be regulated more than it is. Is GDPR the answer? I don't feel so.
  - mrtksn 8y ago
    Not all software is regulated, no one cares about your program you make at home, run or distribute as long as it doesn't do some specific stuff. Make a calculator App and GDPR doesn't care. Make a calculator App that collects financial info and personal info and sends that info somewhere, then GDPR cares.

People die when a civil engineer messes up. Most people don't die from a website.

by sb8244 8y ago

People die when a civil engineer messes up. Most people don't die from a website.

That does not mean that software has no real world consequences. Otherwise, why would people be building software ? There's a reason companies which are 100% software can be valued in the billions of dollars. Their software has huge, very real consequences.

sb8244 8y ago
Of course software has consequences. Not the same as infrastructure of countries though. Companies are valued at billions not because of life and death risks but usually because it enables other companies to make money. On the other hand, basically everything done in civil engineering could be seen as having real danger implications. Bridges and tunnels of course, but even roads which can wash out and cause harm.
sturgill 8y ago
Also their marginal cost of delivery approaches zero. High fixed costs in creating the software and almost negligible marginal costs. The return on capital can be astronomical. Online services have “real consequences.” But not of the type as goods in the physical world. PCI and HIPAA have tried to mitigate against some of the most egregious crossovers of failed software. GDPR scares me. Not in the “I don’t like the consequences” but in the “I don’t know what this does and how screwed I might be.” I’m very happy to be on the other side of the pond where I can safely observe the fallout. Feels like buying a first generation Apple device: I’ll wait a few years and let the early adopters go through the pain for me...

ghthor 8y ago

What if the software we interact with causes stress? Stress kills, just not in the same visible way as a bridge falling down.

sb8244 8y ago
That is going to affect how it's regulated. I'm just pointing out the comparison is not right.

mrtksn 8y ago

Really depends on the mess up. You mess up and leak confidential info to an ex-boyfriend? Well, here you are contributing to the stats of women killed by their partners. If software didn't have strong real-world implications the entire software market would have been just a subset of the gaming market. I'm not a regulations fan but for me, it feels simply like something obvious materializing.

sb8244 8y ago
I think it's important to look at how many programs fall to risks like that. Where is the cutoff where we regulate the whole industry due to a very very small possibility of issue? Food safety, for instance, can affect everyone because bacteria can be anywhere and a lapse in safety practices has a high chance of public sickness. I do think some software should be regulated more than it is. Is GDPR the answer? I don't feel so.
- mrtksn 8y ago
  Not all software is regulated, no one cares about your program you make at home, run or distribute as long as it doesn't do some specific stuff. Make a calculator App and GDPR doesn't care. Make a calculator App that collects financial info and personal info and sends that info somewhere, then GDPR cares.