5 ms·

Chinese businesses and the military using “emotional surveillance technology”

96 points by loriverkutya 8y ago

awakeasleep 8y ago
The tabloid nature of this journalism makes one wonder whether Bat Baby’s productivity could have been improved with this same chip
- noonespecial 8y ago
  Of course, he would have been able to stay awake long enough to finally photograph 'ol Nessie.
pavel_lishin 8y ago
This sounds very tabloidy, but this actually seems like an interesting and useful application, especially given the recent high-profile incidents where train drivers in the American north-east nodded off and caused crashes. > Deayea, a technology company in Shanghai, said its brain monitoring devices were worn regularly by train drivers working on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail line, one of the busiest of its kind in the world. > The sensors, built in the brim of the driver’s hat, could measure various types of brain activities, including fatigue and attention loss with an accuracy of more than 90 per cent, according to the company’s website. > If the driver dozed off, for instance, the cap would trigger an alarm in the cabin to wake him up.
- Ftuuky 8y ago
  Fujitsu is also launched a wearable to detect and prevent truck drivers from falling asleep at the wheel. http://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-releases/2015/0119-02.html http://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-rel...
- test6554 8y ago
  Wile waking up a sleepy conductor seems like a good idea, how much longer is a train conductor job going to exist? I feel like rail is the the one form of transportation that is most susceptible to automation. Since trains are usually run by slow-moving government agencies, I see how they may have lagged behind the times. Although this is stupidly oversimplified, a train is like an elevator on its side, and we don't have many elevator operators these days.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    > a train is like an elevator on its side, and we don't have many elevator operators these days. Elevators don't get random people and cars crossing the tracks, don't have to contend with variable weather conditions, and are very, very unlikely to encounter another elevator in the same shaft. And while onboard train operators might disappear in ten years or so, I think it might be worthwhile to keep the ones we currently have awake.
growlix 8y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers are exaggerated (or fabricated) in order to facilitate widespread acceptance and adoption of surveillance.
- sebleon 8y ago
  Absolutely, companies face extreme government coercion in China.
horrific 8y ago
Horrifying. Even one's inner-life is now monitored, controlled and punished. When will this arrive in the US?
pasbesoin 8y ago
This actually strikes me as being relatively easy for an AI to tackle. So, I expected automated "flag" generation to become widespread. Merge with some context information, and you'll receive either surveillance or a tap on the shoulder when you get too emotional in an "non-typical" or "elevated security" context. I, too, am horrified by it. Especially as someone who is a bit atypical, such as to how much extraneous human noise can frustrate me when I'm trying to focus. I don't "act out", but my pulse and other biometrics will spike. Now, that may equate with "undesirable behavior". Because I'm trying to tune out some noisy people and concentrate.
- toss1 8y ago
  Excellent point -- the outliers will always raise false-positive flags. Now, if you could get access to the data yourself and (also) use it as a biofeedback self-training device, it could be very effective at helping us produce better/more frequent calm and focused states even in stressful situations.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
iliketosleep 8y ago
If anyone is interested the original SCMP article contains a lot more detail: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2143899/forget-facebook-leak-china-mining-data-directly-workers-brains http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2143899/forge...
gumby 8y ago
> Cheng Jingzhou, the official who oversees the company's program, said "there is no doubt about its effect," Well, I can't argue about this: the technology has unquestionably had the effect of causing some people to be reassigned, some disciplined, etc. But absurd hearsay comments about increased profits? I think some science and some numbers are required. (I read the SCMP article of which this was a summary and it didn't have any higher journalistic value).
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
not_that_noob 8y ago
So if a worker wanted a day off, all they had to do was think bad thoughts?
- scj 8y ago
  Yup, they can spend some time in the cornfield[0] if they want! [0] The cornfield was a type of purgatory/hell in The Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilig...
  - coldacid 8y ago
    Except in China it might be a literal cornfield. Or some other place where you get "reassigned" to slave for the state.
sologoub 8y ago
Wonder how they controlled for the Hawthorne effect? Mass surveillance is often in the back of one’s mind, but there are few physical reminders. Being fitted with equipment that is intended to read your brainwaves definitely would alter the perception of being observed and cause a spike in productivity by itself, without any actual managerial interventions needed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect
- SubiculumCode 8y ago
  In the U.S. there might be relatively few physical reminders, but per various reports, pan-opti police-state surveillance in China results in arrests and disappearances for 'crimes' that we'd consider run-of-the-mill free speech.
  - TheForumTroll 8y ago
    Wow..
  - sologoub 8y ago
    When it’s not attached to you, you start to tune things out. Most large cities are riddled with cameras and police presence. Granted, they aren’t just disappearing people in the states (most of the time), but that police cruise that just passed you scanned your license plates and analyzed you for likelyhood of a crime. It was in the news, we all read it and I bet you that you never think twice about it.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  Why would you control for the Hawthorne effect, if it's aligned with your intended effect?
  - tlb 8y ago
    Because the Hawthorne effect wears off over time. If you don't control for it, you'll be fooled into adding all kinds of interventions that have no long-term benefit.
chocolate_ 8y ago
This is similar to the premise of the anime "Psycho-Pass" (where a weapon's lethality is governed by the target's mental state). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Pass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Pass
lowbloodsugar 8y ago
Here! Buy this hat from my reputable friend here. You will see productivity increase by hundreds of millions! Each hat is only $1000! A very fine hat! One for every citizen!
xkcd-sucks 8y ago
There are probably already waveform generators that reproduce a "good worker" signal available for purchase in Shenzhen
ux4 8y ago
Sad how this technology is being used for tyrannical surveillance when it could be used to improve the mental health and emotional well-being of people instead. I imagine using this to improve the emotional well-being of your employees would boost productivity much more.

96 points by loriverkutya 8y ago

The tabloid nature of this journalism makes one wonder whether Bat Baby’s productivity could have been improved with this same chip

noonespecial 8y ago
Of course, he would have been able to stay awake long enough to finally photograph 'ol Nessie.

pavel_lishin 8y ago

This sounds very tabloidy, but this actually seems like an interesting and useful application, especially given the recent high-profile incidents where train drivers in the American north-east nodded off and caused crashes. > Deayea, a technology company in Shanghai, said its brain monitoring devices were worn regularly by train drivers working on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail line, one of the busiest of its kind in the world. > The sensors, built in the brim of the driver’s hat, could measure various types of brain activities, including fatigue and attention loss with an accuracy of more than 90 per cent, according to the company’s website. > If the driver dozed off, for instance, the cap would trigger an alarm in the cabin to wake him up.

Ftuuky 8y ago
Fujitsu is also launched a wearable to detect and prevent truck drivers from falling asleep at the wheel. http://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-releases/2015/0119-02.html http://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-rel...
test6554 8y ago
Wile waking up a sleepy conductor seems like a good idea, how much longer is a train conductor job going to exist? I feel like rail is the the one form of transportation that is most susceptible to automation. Since trains are usually run by slow-moving government agencies, I see how they may have lagged behind the times. Although this is stupidly oversimplified, a train is like an elevator on its side, and we don't have many elevator operators these days.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  > a train is like an elevator on its side, and we don't have many elevator operators these days. Elevators don't get random people and cars crossing the tracks, don't have to contend with variable weather conditions, and are very, very unlikely to encounter another elevator in the same shaft. And while onboard train operators might disappear in ten years or so, I think it might be worthwhile to keep the ones we currently have awake.

growlix 8y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers are exaggerated (or fabricated) in order to facilitate widespread acceptance and adoption of surveillance.

sebleon 8y ago
Absolutely, companies face extreme government coercion in China.

horrific 8y ago

Horrifying. Even one's inner-life is now monitored, controlled and punished. When will this arrive in the US?

pasbesoin 8y ago

This actually strikes me as being relatively easy for an AI to tackle. So, I expected automated "flag" generation to become widespread. Merge with some context information, and you'll receive either surveillance or a tap on the shoulder when you get too emotional in an "non-typical" or "elevated security" context. I, too, am horrified by it. Especially as someone who is a bit atypical, such as to how much extraneous human noise can frustrate me when I'm trying to focus. I don't "act out", but my pulse and other biometrics will spike. Now, that may equate with "undesirable behavior". Because I'm trying to tune out some noisy people and concentrate.

toss1 8y ago
Excellent point -- the outliers will always raise false-positive flags. Now, if you could get access to the data yourself and (also) use it as a biofeedback self-training device, it could be very effective at helping us produce better/more frequent calm and focused states even in stressful situations.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

iliketosleep 8y ago

If anyone is interested the original SCMP article contains a lot more detail: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2143899/forget-facebook-leak-china-mining-data-directly-workers-brains http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2143899/forge...

gumby 8y ago

> Cheng Jingzhou, the official who oversees the company's program, said "there is no doubt about its effect," Well, I can't argue about this: the technology has unquestionably had the effect of causing some people to be reassigned, some disciplined, etc. But absurd hearsay comments about increased profits? I think some science and some numbers are required. (I read the SCMP article of which this was a summary and it didn't have any higher journalistic value).

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

not_that_noob 8y ago

So if a worker wanted a day off, all they had to do was think bad thoughts?

scj 8y ago
Yup, they can spend some time in the cornfield[0] if they want! [0] The cornfield was a type of purgatory/hell in The Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilig...
- coldacid 8y ago
  Except in China it might be a literal cornfield. Or some other place where you get "reassigned" to slave for the state.

sologoub 8y ago

Wonder how they controlled for the Hawthorne effect? Mass surveillance is often in the back of one’s mind, but there are few physical reminders. Being fitted with equipment that is intended to read your brainwaves definitely would alter the perception of being observed and cause a spike in productivity by itself, without any actual managerial interventions needed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect

SubiculumCode 8y ago
In the U.S. there might be relatively few physical reminders, but per various reports, pan-opti police-state surveillance in China results in arrests and disappearances for 'crimes' that we'd consider run-of-the-mill free speech.
- TheForumTroll 8y ago
  Wow..
- sologoub 8y ago
  When it’s not attached to you, you start to tune things out. Most large cities are riddled with cameras and police presence. Granted, they aren’t just disappearing people in the states (most of the time), but that police cruise that just passed you scanned your license plates and analyzed you for likelyhood of a crime. It was in the news, we all read it and I bet you that you never think twice about it.
freeone3000 8y ago
Why would you control for the Hawthorne effect, if it's aligned with your intended effect?
- tlb 8y ago
  Because the Hawthorne effect wears off over time. If you don't control for it, you'll be fooled into adding all kinds of interventions that have no long-term benefit.

chocolate_ 8y ago

This is similar to the premise of the anime "Psycho-Pass" (where a weapon's lethality is governed by the target's mental state). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Pass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Pass

lowbloodsugar 8y ago

Here! Buy this hat from my reputable friend here. You will see productivity increase by hundreds of millions! Each hat is only $1000! A very fine hat! One for every citizen!

xkcd-sucks 8y ago

There are probably already waveform generators that reproduce a "good worker" signal available for purchase in Shenzhen

ux4 8y ago

Sad how this technology is being used for tyrannical surveillance when it could be used to improve the mental health and emotional well-being of people instead. I imagine using this to improve the emotional well-being of your employees would boost productivity much more.