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> It's not just about safety for you, proper disposal of these chemicals is essential for the many generations to come. Yes Gordon Moore created a superfund si

> It's not just about safety for you, proper disposal of these chemicals is essential for the many generations to come. Yes Gordon Moore created a superfund site or two in California.

ajross 9y ago
Citation needed? The inorganic materials used in semiconductor fabrication, especially in the early days, tend to be fairly benign and are used only in small quantities relative to other industry. The HF monster everyone is talking about in this thread is dangerous only as a concentrated acid. It's highly soluble -- reduce it with a rainstorm or two and let it recombine to a neutral pH and you rapidly get to (literally!) toothpaste-level toxicity. There's a VERY serious discussion to be had about the safety for a backyard chip fabricator. But the idea that this is some kind of long term pollutant (relative to much more serious issues like the cleaning solutions in your very own closet!) is pretty spun. Edit: yeah, as the responses point out, the "superfund" sites in question are things like VOC contamination you see with any urban industry, nothing particular to semiconductor fabrication that would justify the upthread quote about contamination "for many generations to come".
- TomV1971 9y ago
  Here is one of them: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902632 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0... Intel graciously paid for trees to brighten up the street and has a nice street sign saying so. (It doesn’t say why they did.) This one is not directly related to silicon production, but the QA that came after.
- mannykannot 9y ago
  No citation is needed when a simple internet search reveals plenty of references, and that the issue is not HF specifically - volatile organics are an important issue.
- opencl 9y ago
  Intel superfund site #1: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0901661 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0... Intel superfund site #2: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0901482 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0... Intel superfund site #3: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902632 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0...
- chaostheory 9y ago
  “We were putting into industrial production a lot of really nasty chemicals. There was just no knowledge of these things, and we were pouring stuff down into the city sewer system.” - Gordon Moore https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-15/american-chipmakers-had-a-toxic-problem-so-they-outsourced-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-15/american-... (cites the main source that is no longer on the web) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrtyUnad7Jo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrtyUnad7Jo (audio from the interview) Despite the quote, what a lot of people question is Gordon Moore's ignorance. He has a PhD in chemistry afterall.
  - pacaro 9y ago
    We know a lot more now than we did. There’s a generation or two of chemists, pharmacists, etc who habitually mouth pipetted common lab solvents that we now know to be carcinogenic. As early as 1969 chemists were identified as having increased cancer risk https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cen-v047n008.p014b https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cen-v047n008.p014b
- carapace 9y ago
  > So it was that while running, but not so much as to force my body into open rebellion, I noticed something odd. When I was heading down the gently sloping hill on Peter Coutts Road towards Stanford Avenue, I turned right as usual to head back home, passed along the edge of a grassy area, and smelled...cookies. But not really cookies. Raw cookie dough. Outside. http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20130404/in-search-of-the-cookie-dough-tree/ http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20130404/in-search-of-... Lot's of information about the situation in that article. TL;DR: Palo Alto is a toxic cesspit.

> It's not just about safety for you, proper disposal of these chemicals is essential for the many generations to come. Yes Gordon Moore created a superfund site or two in California.

ajross 9y ago

Citation needed? The inorganic materials used in semiconductor fabrication, especially in the early days, tend to be fairly benign and are used only in small quantities relative to other industry. The HF monster everyone is talking about in this thread is dangerous only as a concentrated acid. It's highly soluble -- reduce it with a rainstorm or two and let it recombine to a neutral pH and you rapidly get to (literally!) toothpaste-level toxicity. There's a VERY serious discussion to be had about the safety for a backyard chip fabricator. But the idea that this is some kind of long term pollutant (relative to much more serious issues like the cleaning solutions in your very own closet!) is pretty spun. Edit: yeah, as the responses point out, the "superfund" sites in question are things like VOC contamination you see with any urban industry, nothing particular to semiconductor fabrication that would justify the upthread quote about contamination "for many generations to come".

TomV1971 9y ago
Here is one of them: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902632 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0... Intel graciously paid for trees to brighten up the street and has a nice street sign saying so. (It doesn’t say why they did.) This one is not directly related to silicon production, but the QA that came after.
mannykannot 9y ago
No citation is needed when a simple internet search reveals plenty of references, and that the issue is not HF specifically - volatile organics are an important issue.
opencl 9y ago
Intel superfund site #1: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0901661 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0... Intel superfund site #2: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0901482 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0... Intel superfund site #3: https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902632 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0...
chaostheory 9y ago
“We were putting into industrial production a lot of really nasty chemicals. There was just no knowledge of these things, and we were pouring stuff down into the city sewer system.” - Gordon Moore https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-15/american-chipmakers-had-a-toxic-problem-so-they-outsourced-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-15/american-... (cites the main source that is no longer on the web) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrtyUnad7Jo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrtyUnad7Jo (audio from the interview) Despite the quote, what a lot of people question is Gordon Moore's ignorance. He has a PhD in chemistry afterall.
- pacaro 9y ago
  We know a lot more now than we did. There’s a generation or two of chemists, pharmacists, etc who habitually mouth pipetted common lab solvents that we now know to be carcinogenic. As early as 1969 chemists were identified as having increased cancer risk https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cen-v047n008.p014b https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cen-v047n008.p014b
carapace 9y ago
> So it was that while running, but not so much as to force my body into open rebellion, I noticed something odd. When I was heading down the gently sloping hill on Peter Coutts Road towards Stanford Avenue, I turned right as usual to head back home, passed along the edge of a grassy area, and smelled...cookies. But not really cookies. Raw cookie dough. Outside. http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20130404/in-search-of-the-cookie-dough-tree/ http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/20130404/in-search-of-... Lot's of information about the situation in that article. TL;DR: Palo Alto is a toxic cesspit.