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A page about hair-splitting on translations of a philosophy whose chapter one paragraph one states the notion isn't possible to convey in words! The Tao that c
by contingencies 9y ago
A page about hair-splitting on translations of a philosophy whose chapter one paragraph one states the notion isn't possible to convey in words!
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao;
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named is the mother of ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name;
this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.
- smallnamespace 9y agoWhereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
- Avshalom 9y ago'course, that might just be a translation artifact.
- kwelstr 9y agoThat has always been my favorite translation, by Gia-fu Feng and Jane English, and the book is beautifully illustrated. https://www.amazon.com/Ching-25th-Anniversary-English-Mandarin-Chinese/dp/0679776192/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525058035&sr=8-2&keywords=gia-fu+feng+and+jane+english https://www.amazon.com/Ching-25th-Anniversary-English-Mandar...
- davidgould 9y agoI love this translation. I first read it in the 1970s as a young person and it had a big influence on my life. I can think of only a handful of books that really soak into your being and way seeing. I’ve probably forgotten almost all the text, but still find trying to recreate the feeling/attitude inspired by the book rewarding and useful, especially to cope with adversity and frustration. I recommend reading it in small pieces and using the sparse layout and misty landscape photographs to help absorb the Dao by osmosis rather than by attempting to overthink the text.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y agoI think it's quite useful anyway, to see all these translation efforts - you can compare them to fingers pointing at the moon.
- abrezas 9y agoIt does try to convey something in words in the next chapters, no?
- nicky0 9y agoWell it tries yes.
- allemagne 9y agoYes, but the intention of the text isn't to explain what Dao is and how to live according to Dao. It clearly says that's impossible, and even calling the concept 'Dao' is counterproductive to a full understanding. So the text is meant to do something else, like help others start thinking and learning for themselves.
- anqurvanillapy 9y agoHard to convey and even more concise in Chinese, e.g. 道可道, 非常道. (Characters respectively mean: {'道[1]': 'Tao', '可': 'can; able', '道[2]': 'say; tell', '非': 'not', '常': 'usual; normal', '道[3]': 'Tao'}).
- drwu 9y ago'道[2]' did not have the meaning of 'say; tell' until the Song dynasty, which was ~1000 years ago. Therefore, it is questionable, whether the second '道' really means 'say; tell' in the text before 2000 years.
- anqurvanillapy 9y agoIf so, '道' initially means 'path; road', and its further meaning 'law; principle' can indicate its alternative function in the sentence (n. -> v.). It might be 'describe; illustrate' rather than 'say' here.
- mapcars 9y agoYou can not talk it but you can talk around it and get some interest on the subject even thousands of years later :)
- Maybestring 9y agoIn the original text, it's all puns. Characters with multiple meanings are used in short statements that (intentionally) don't disambiguate the meaning.
- gkya 9y agoWe do not translate or study ancient philosophy necessarily for the validity of the ideas it proposes. It's more of a historical endeavour, more useful in learning how people of the past have though, and in learning how to think ourselves. Like when a Python programmer studies assembly, C and old Unix sources.