4 ms·

Yes, they're unwilling to shoulder the risk.. so why should they get to keep people's data? Because it's a small operation? Because the owner doesn't have tim

Yes, they're unwilling to shoulder the risk.. so why should they get to keep people's data? Because it's a small operation? Because the owner doesn't have time to secure it? Yeah, it's extremely easy to not share your data with them.. if you know they don't care about protecting it.. But what about all of the other people on the internet that don't know this guy doesn't care about your privacy? Convincing businesses to take your personal data seriously is the whole point, and you shouldn't get a free pass just because you only handle people's personal data in your spare time.

closeparen 9y ago
> so why should they get to keep people's data? Because people voluntarily provide it to them. > But what about all of the other people on the internet that don't know this guy doesn't care about your privacy? Governments confront problems with this general shape all the time... the result is usually labeling requirements. Sure, this guy should not be allowed to claim he has a crack team of elite cybersecurity engineers when he doesn't. Regardless, no one is asking him keep secrets for them. It's a niche Craigslist. >Because it's a small operation? You're actively campaigning to degrade privacy (and also user freedom, competition, and choice) to a much greater degree by displacing these activities onto large, centralized platforms. Especially those which are monetizing your data to a high enough degree that it's worthwhile to staff a compliance team for the privilege of continuing to do so.
- vkou 9y ago
  > Because people voluntarily provide it to them. Voluntary or not, there are some rights that you cannot give up to someone else. In Europe, one of those rights is control over your own personal information. There's also the issue of information symmetry. Just because I voluntarily bought your product doesn't mean that you should be 100% free from any liability that it may cause.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    >In Europe, one of those rights is control over your own personal information. If that were true, you would not be able to post this comment (the most highly sensitive category of personal data, political views) in a public forum.
    - vkou 9y ago
      If you do not see the differences between collecting PII, and communicating your opinion in public, I'm not sure that a good faith discussion is possible. But if it's all the same, would you mind sharing your credit card numbers, SSN, and date of birth? I won't leak it, pinky swear.
      - closeparen 9y ago
        > PII The GDPR concerns all information related to people. It doesn't treat PII (i.e. identifiers) separately.
      - jcims 9y ago
        You should read the second paragraph here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Scope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
  - jimktrains2 9y ago
    > In Europe, one of those rights is control over your own personal information. Which is a dangerous illusion. You don't control anything you hand over to someone else.
    - vkou 9y ago
      I don't control the money I hand over to my bank, but short of complete societal collapse, Mad Max style, it will be used, and accessible in ways that are very clearly defined. It's not just going to dissapear to the Bahamas one day.
      - jimktrains2 9y ago
        > I don't control the money I hand over to my bank, You do have control, actually. You and the bank have an agreement as such.
        che_shirecat 9y ago
        Likewise users in the EU have an agreement with GPDR-compliant companies for control over their data.
        vkou 9y ago
        And if the bank decides to break that agreement and run off with the cash (Or just lose it), there exists a regulatory framework that will resolve 99% of these sorts of issues. This is also where GDPR is at. Without it, in theory, you have a shrinkwrap tl;dr agreeement with the service, but in practice, they can do whatever they want with your data, with no repercussions. See: Facebook and CA. Facebook misused my data (Because my friends opted in to sharing it), CA misused my data (Because they weren't even supposed to be given access to it), and the outcome? Nothing of consequence. GDPR does three things: 1. It makes those repercussions have teeth. 2. It makes sure that you give informed consent to use of your data. (Unsurprisingly, similar laws exist for banks!) 3. It clarifies what has to happen when you stop being a user of a service. (Prior to it, de-facto, your data would be opted into whatever changes of the data usage policy the service made - regardless of whether or not you still had an active account, whether you agreed with the ToS, etc. If you deleted your Facebook account, you had zero leverage of how your data would be used.)
rdlecler1 9y ago
You’re putting Facebook and small websites in the same bucket.
rorykoehler 9y ago
GDPR is a sham. It's a ham-fisted attempt to protect citizens data (which is mostly unimportant even if leaked) due to the transgressions of a few corporate behemoths. In the end it only serves to solidify the market position of said behemoths as it adds another barrier to entry for small innovative startups that are already difficult enough to start without this bs. My main worry related to GDPR is that once implemented it will be near impossible to reverse once we see what a total clusterfuck it actually is.

closeparen 9y ago

> so why should they get to keep people's data? Because people voluntarily provide it to them. > But what about all of the other people on the internet that don't know this guy doesn't care about your privacy? Governments confront problems with this general shape all the time... the result is usually labeling requirements. Sure, this guy should not be allowed to claim he has a crack team of elite cybersecurity engineers when he doesn't. Regardless, no one is asking him keep secrets for them. It's a niche Craigslist. >Because it's a small operation? You're actively campaigning to degrade privacy (and also user freedom, competition, and choice) to a much greater degree by displacing these activities onto large, centralized platforms. Especially those which are monetizing your data to a high enough degree that it's worthwhile to staff a compliance team for the privilege of continuing to do so.

vkou 9y ago
> Because people voluntarily provide it to them. Voluntary or not, there are some rights that you cannot give up to someone else. In Europe, one of those rights is control over your own personal information. There's also the issue of information symmetry. Just because I voluntarily bought your product doesn't mean that you should be 100% free from any liability that it may cause.
- closeparen 9y ago
  >In Europe, one of those rights is control over your own personal information. If that were true, you would not be able to post this comment (the most highly sensitive category of personal data, political views) in a public forum.
  - vkou 9y ago
    If you do not see the differences between collecting PII, and communicating your opinion in public, I'm not sure that a good faith discussion is possible. But if it's all the same, would you mind sharing your credit card numbers, SSN, and date of birth? I won't leak it, pinky swear.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      > PII The GDPR concerns all information related to people. It doesn't treat PII (i.e. identifiers) separately.
    - jcims 9y ago
      You should read the second paragraph here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Scope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
- jimktrains2 9y ago
  > In Europe, one of those rights is control over your own personal information. Which is a dangerous illusion. You don't control anything you hand over to someone else.
  - vkou 9y ago
    I don't control the money I hand over to my bank, but short of complete societal collapse, Mad Max style, it will be used, and accessible in ways that are very clearly defined. It's not just going to dissapear to the Bahamas one day.
    - jimktrains2 9y ago
      > I don't control the money I hand over to my bank, You do have control, actually. You and the bank have an agreement as such.
      - che_shirecat 9y ago
        Likewise users in the EU have an agreement with GPDR-compliant companies for control over their data.
      - vkou 9y ago
        And if the bank decides to break that agreement and run off with the cash (Or just lose it), there exists a regulatory framework that will resolve 99% of these sorts of issues. This is also where GDPR is at. Without it, in theory, you have a shrinkwrap tl;dr agreeement with the service, but in practice, they can do whatever they want with your data, with no repercussions. See: Facebook and CA. Facebook misused my data (Because my friends opted in to sharing it), CA misused my data (Because they weren't even supposed to be given access to it), and the outcome? Nothing of consequence. GDPR does three things: 1. It makes those repercussions have teeth. 2. It makes sure that you give informed consent to use of your data. (Unsurprisingly, similar laws exist for banks!) 3. It clarifies what has to happen when you stop being a user of a service. (Prior to it, de-facto, your data would be opted into whatever changes of the data usage policy the service made - regardless of whether or not you still had an active account, whether you agreed with the ToS, etc. If you deleted your Facebook account, you had zero leverage of how your data would be used.)

rdlecler1 9y ago

You’re putting Facebook and small websites in the same bucket.

rorykoehler 9y ago

GDPR is a sham. It's a ham-fisted attempt to protect citizens data (which is mostly unimportant even if leaked) due to the transgressions of a few corporate behemoths. In the end it only serves to solidify the market position of said behemoths as it adds another barrier to entry for small innovative startups that are already difficult enough to start without this bs. My main worry related to GDPR is that once implemented it will be near impossible to reverse once we see what a total clusterfuck it actually is.