11 ms·

Larry Harvey, co-founder of Burning Man, has died

179 points by NaOH 9y ago

yerself 9y ago
You must pay to read about a great man who's vision went beyond money and to the core of humanity. Paywalls suck.
- alex_young 9y ago
  NPR: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/28/606801096/burning-man-co-founder-larry-harvey-dies-at-70 https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/28/606801096...
- _jal 9y ago
  Official org announcement: https://journal.burningman.org/2018/04/news/official-announcements/larry-harvey-passes/ https://journal.burningman.org/2018/04/news/official-announc...
- wagecuck 9y ago
  Pretty fitting, considering what Burning Man has become.
- SamReidHughes 9y ago
  You can read about him for free elsewhere.
- yerself 9y ago
  I realize there are other ways to read about him. I've received the email, posts, messages. I don't like that there is a paywall for an obituary. For an article like "Top 10 most popular puppies" I understand the paywall, who doesn't want to look at puppies? But the death of a person that has affected so many people's lives, like mine, why is there a paywall?
  - Aloha 9y ago
    Quality journalism costs money. Someone had to be paid to write the obit, someone was paid to edit it, someone was paid to put it online, the servers cost money, so does the power, so does the connectivity and other infrastructure to put it online - none of this is free - heck, 30 years ago, you would have needed to buy a paper to read it. Do I like the rates the NYT charges? no, I'd be happy to pay 5 dollars a month so I can access the top 5 newspapers of record though.
redwood 9y ago
RIP. He leaves ripples bouncing around and amongst countless peoples' minds, reverberating with the realization that there are no limits on what is possible.
alex_young 9y ago
Larry's realized vision of community has inspired so much creativity that it's impossible to do justice to his impact on our world in a short comment. Personally, I met my wife and many friends through his indirect action, and I've become much more creative and understanding of those around me in the process. There must be many more here with similar stories.
- dopeboy 9y ago
  Could you go into this more? I've never been to BM but have always been curious what people have gotten out of it.
  - defen 9y ago
    One of my favorite quotes from Blood Meridian (which was published before Burning Man was a thing; I have no reason to believe it influenced Burning Man but the two are linked in my mind because of the setting and because this quote always makes me think of it) The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it all from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning. I would note that there is a difference between experiential knowledge and propositional or factual knowledge - you can read as many books about dance as you want, but none of them will tell you what it feels like to dance. In the same way, everyone sort of knows, on some level, that essentially everything about society is arbitrary. Your clothes, your food, your house, your job, everything is the result of path-dependent evolution that didn't have to end up how it did. Ok, great, so you can know that just from using logic, but how can you feel it? Burning Man is one answer to that question. It lets you experience the "fevered dream" that is reality.
    - coffeemug 9y ago
      I think the word "arbitrary" isn't quite right. > Your clothes, your food, your house, your job, everything is the result of path-dependent evolution that didn't have to end up how it did. For example, we have a lot of wheat in our diet because wheat was convenient to grow in certain climates, and the countries that grew it ended up colonizing half the world (I'm not a food historian, but for argument's sake this is probably correct enough). So there is a reason why we eat a lot of wheat; there is a reason why our clothes are cut the way they are; there is a reason why our cities look the way they do. Whether we know it or not, there is a good reason for almost everything. It may be the result of path-dependent evolution, but it isn't arbitrary. I think Burning Man errs far too much on the side of "everything about society is made up, and you can make it different". There are lots of rules about how the tapestry is woven that aren't made up. If you want to change the world you have to be aware that many (most?) things happen for a good reason. It's not just all imaginary.
throwaway010718 9y ago
As an electrical engineer with a traditional work-ethic, I always felt cursed that my only brother was a Bohemian/artist. Then my brother asked me to join him on a trip to Burning Man and I reluctantly agreed. Not knowing what to expect, my brother privately took care of everything. He created several costumes so we could wear something different every day. He decorated our bicycles and designed elaborate canopies. He made drug laced snacks for barter and created games we could play in darkness of the desert night. Upon my arrival, he made me feel welcome despite my immediate realization that I was not worthy of attending this event. For I had contributed nothing. I had, for the first time in my life, felt like dead-weight to society. But instead of judging me, my brother made me feel loved. Going to Burning Man is truly a humbling experience. The unimaginable massive spectacles of creativity are beyond my ability to describe. As much as we would like to return we both agreed we wouldn't unless we had an installation to exhibit. A fitting mission a for sibling artist-engineering team who feel obliged to give back to an event that gave them so much. RIP Larry. I hope somehow in death you feel all the love and beauty that Burning Man inspired.
- sytelus 9y ago
  While the Burning Man experience had been one of the unforgettable for me, I'd spent at least a day there forced to think about economics of it all. The ticket to BM cost big money for most people ($450 + $80 vehicle pass). For example, right now the tickets are priced at $1200 per person at the official website. This is a significant revenues for the organizers with 50,000 attendees. I couldn't wonder but thinking why cost is so high? There is virtually no services provided by the organizers except for portable potties (which BTW stinks all over and is perhaps the biggest factor in ruining the whole experience). Almost all of the labor and even lot of material is provided by largely unpaid volunteers. I understand there is grants made to many artists, but still I'm not sure if some organizers have probably created this whole scheme to make a living out of this. There is not much of an explanation on why tickets are so pricey while number of attendees have kept increasing every year while the costs should have almost remained more or less same because of lack of services. I was also surprised that while folks are encouraged to give and take gifts and keep the whole thing free of cash, there is indeed commercial establishment to serve coffee. Why can't it be made free? A cup of coffee costs less than $1 to make (especially when you have volunteer labor). Even if a person drinks 5 cups a day, 5 times a week - it's still $25. For a ticket that costs $400+ isn't that doable that would allow to make the event truly cashless and keep the spirit of the event?
zanek 9y ago
Burning Man has been one of the 3 most important events in my life ! I never met Larry Harvey but he seemed like an amazing man. I learned so much about myself, life and everything in between going to it. I've gone almost 7 times, but havent gone in the last 5 years. I really loved some of the snippets from this article about Larry. The bit about someone waking him up at 4am with a chainsaw to work on an ice sculpture made me laugh outloud. Definitely par for course at Burning Man, and his reaction says alot about him. RIP http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/larry-harvey-founder-and-leader-of-burning-man-dies-in-san-francisco/ar-AAwtwQx?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=iehp http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/larry-harvey-founder-and-le...
bredren 9y ago
This is a cute story, but for folks considering attending bartering of any kind at the burn is not a thing.
- dang 9y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16950705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16950705 and marked it off-topic.
- mlevental 9y ago
  umm isn't that exactly the opposite of what you always hear?
  - _s 9y ago
    Not quite - giving without any expectation of receiving is very different to bartering.
  - sowbug 9y ago
    Money isn't permitted except for the initial tickets, as well as coffee/ice (all of which are sold by the organizers). It's otherwise a gift economy. Reciprocation is fine, except that the initial gift shouldn't be given with the expectation of reciprocation. It's a subtle difference, but it works out OK. Some would probably object to the term "economy" as well -- you're supposed to have arrived with everything you need to survive, so all the exchanging is just for fun.
    - aurelius12 9y ago
      You can also purchase RV pumpouts with cash on the spot, which is not sold by the organizers.
  - jwegan 9y ago
    Correct, this is what everyone always hears about Burning Man. However, the idea that bartering happens at Burning Man is the most common misconnection. It is also how you can pick out that someone has never been to Burning Man (at least not recently). I've been 5 years and from what I gather there was some bartering >10 years ago (not sure the exact date, but my impression is it was in the 90s). However, it shifted to a "gifting" economy where you give out gifts with no expectation of return and any Burner who hears that characterized as bartering would be quick to correct you.
jph 9y ago
Thank you Larry. Burning Man photos that are favorites of mine by many photographers: http://www.joelparkerhenderson.com/burningman/ http://www.joelparkerhenderson.com/burningman/ Photos are by many people during many years.
bdcs 9y ago
A beautiful article of a beautiful man. So it goes. I will remain forever* transformed due to him. * Until I die, I suppose :)
mindfulhack 9y ago
Burning Man has changed my life. It will continue to for as long as I live.
almostApatriot1 9y ago
“I don’t think black folks like to camp as much as white folks”. - Larry Harvey on why there are so few black people at Burning Man[0] [0]https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/sep/04/burning-man-founder-larry-harvey-race-diversity-silicon-valley https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/sep/04/burning-man-...
- yesforwhat 9y ago
  really?
- chrischen 9y ago
  You have to be somewhat privileged to have this level of self-actualizing activity on your activity list.
- rizwank 9y ago
  As a person of South Asian decent, I can validate how few people I attribute it to a first and second generation community - if you already have a community to call your own, you are less likely to search for others. I’m alternative enough to be interested; and don’t identify with that cultural background much. Often I’m alone in alternative subcultures - gaming, the burn, the poly scene, etc.
mattnewton 9y ago
I had many enlightenments from burning man and I hope to have many more; the participants are worthy successors once they pick up the dance, and so I think the event will go on. One of my favorite memories is an early night at my first burn, there was a man on a stool with a walkie-talkie checking ID to enter the base of The Man. I didn’t have my ID on me, but I patiently lined up with everyone else, planning on explaining that I only wanted to see the inside with my friends and wasn’t planning on drinking tonight at all. Before reaching the man on the stool, someone in front of us made a break for it past him. He barked angrily at the guy, grabbing at him and shouting into his handset. When it came to me, at this point I thought my chances were slim and I would have to sit this attraction out without an ID. I explained my situation to him anyways. I will never forgot his reply: “I am just fucking with you all” he said, a twinkle in his eye. Indeed, there was only an air of official-ness around his outfit and stool, he had no real authority. We all just accepted a queue for ID checks voluntarily. I walked past and learned more about society from that one prank than I had from any textbook or class since. And that is just one experience. I hope to carry that on that tradition. There is a real magic in culture, and I am thankful that Larry stumbled upon it and decided to share. Thank you, and thanks to everyone who keeps it going!
- gargarplex 9y ago
  The opening chapter of Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian has a story like that except a bit more intense. Indeed, when you realize how much of human experience runs on autopilot and you try to consciously evolve past that, you can feel manic and begin to feel like anything is possible.
  - Swizec 9y ago
    > begin to feel like anything is possible You can do whatever you want. As long as you can bear the consequences.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      The consequences are usually an illusion.
stelliosk 9y ago
But will he be cremated?
rladd 9y ago
Back in the day (around 1995) I used to go to parties that Larry Harvey and Marion (who called herself Maid Marion at the time) used to also go to. I was told that the original burning man was an effigy of Larry's ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend. At the time you could even find this story online in a number of places. Mysteriously, it seems to have been purged from the web. But I still believe it to be true, based on who told me and when.
ianai 9y ago
Is it ever brought up whether Burning Man is based on the Zozobra?
olivermarks 9y ago
I went in 2007 and keep saying I will go again. Last year I watched all the videos here https://burners.me/shadow-history/ https://burners.me/shadow-history/ and found it very interesting and intriguing. An insider's perspective on the BM organization. Downloading the slide decks gives an overview of the materials.
dolzenko 9y ago
> anti-establishment, anti-consumerist Can't help but feel there is something insincere in that statement, I mean somehow it seems like exactly the product of consumerist society to me (I mean the attendance cost, cost of setting up you "booth" (?) there), so I wonder if somebody feels the same/gave it more thought.
artur_makly 9y ago
more on Larry : https://larry.burningman.org/ https://larry.burningman.org/

179 points by NaOH 9y ago

yerself 9y ago

You must pay to read about a great man who's vision went beyond money and to the core of humanity. Paywalls suck.

alex_young 9y ago
NPR: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/28/606801096/burning-man-co-founder-larry-harvey-dies-at-70 https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/28/606801096...
_jal 9y ago
Official org announcement: https://journal.burningman.org/2018/04/news/official-announcements/larry-harvey-passes/ https://journal.burningman.org/2018/04/news/official-announc...
wagecuck 9y ago
Pretty fitting, considering what Burning Man has become.
SamReidHughes 9y ago
You can read about him for free elsewhere.
yerself 9y ago
I realize there are other ways to read about him. I've received the email, posts, messages. I don't like that there is a paywall for an obituary. For an article like "Top 10 most popular puppies" I understand the paywall, who doesn't want to look at puppies? But the death of a person that has affected so many people's lives, like mine, why is there a paywall?
- Aloha 9y ago
  Quality journalism costs money. Someone had to be paid to write the obit, someone was paid to edit it, someone was paid to put it online, the servers cost money, so does the power, so does the connectivity and other infrastructure to put it online - none of this is free - heck, 30 years ago, you would have needed to buy a paper to read it. Do I like the rates the NYT charges? no, I'd be happy to pay 5 dollars a month so I can access the top 5 newspapers of record though.

redwood 9y ago

RIP. He leaves ripples bouncing around and amongst countless peoples' minds, reverberating with the realization that there are no limits on what is possible.

alex_young 9y ago

Larry's realized vision of community has inspired so much creativity that it's impossible to do justice to his impact on our world in a short comment. Personally, I met my wife and many friends through his indirect action, and I've become much more creative and understanding of those around me in the process. There must be many more here with similar stories.

dopeboy 9y ago
Could you go into this more? I've never been to BM but have always been curious what people have gotten out of it.
- defen 9y ago
  One of my favorite quotes from Blood Meridian (which was published before Burning Man was a thing; I have no reason to believe it influenced Burning Man but the two are linked in my mind because of the setting and because this quote always makes me think of it) The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it all from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine show, a fevered dream, a trance bepopulate with chimeras having neither analogue nor precedent, an itinerant carnival, a migratory tentshow whose ultimate destination after many a pitch in many a mudded field is unspeakable and calamitous beyond reckoning. I would note that there is a difference between experiential knowledge and propositional or factual knowledge - you can read as many books about dance as you want, but none of them will tell you what it feels like to dance. In the same way, everyone sort of knows, on some level, that essentially everything about society is arbitrary. Your clothes, your food, your house, your job, everything is the result of path-dependent evolution that didn't have to end up how it did. Ok, great, so you can know that just from using logic, but how can you feel it? Burning Man is one answer to that question. It lets you experience the "fevered dream" that is reality.
  - coffeemug 9y ago
    I think the word "arbitrary" isn't quite right. > Your clothes, your food, your house, your job, everything is the result of path-dependent evolution that didn't have to end up how it did. For example, we have a lot of wheat in our diet because wheat was convenient to grow in certain climates, and the countries that grew it ended up colonizing half the world (I'm not a food historian, but for argument's sake this is probably correct enough). So there is a reason why we eat a lot of wheat; there is a reason why our clothes are cut the way they are; there is a reason why our cities look the way they do. Whether we know it or not, there is a good reason for almost everything. It may be the result of path-dependent evolution, but it isn't arbitrary. I think Burning Man errs far too much on the side of "everything about society is made up, and you can make it different". There are lots of rules about how the tapestry is woven that aren't made up. If you want to change the world you have to be aware that many (most?) things happen for a good reason. It's not just all imaginary.

throwaway010718 9y ago

As an electrical engineer with a traditional work-ethic, I always felt cursed that my only brother was a Bohemian/artist. Then my brother asked me to join him on a trip to Burning Man and I reluctantly agreed. Not knowing what to expect, my brother privately took care of everything. He created several costumes so we could wear something different every day. He decorated our bicycles and designed elaborate canopies. He made drug laced snacks for barter and created games we could play in darkness of the desert night. Upon my arrival, he made me feel welcome despite my immediate realization that I was not worthy of attending this event. For I had contributed nothing. I had, for the first time in my life, felt like dead-weight to society. But instead of judging me, my brother made me feel loved. Going to Burning Man is truly a humbling experience. The unimaginable massive spectacles of creativity are beyond my ability to describe. As much as we would like to return we both agreed we wouldn't unless we had an installation to exhibit. A fitting mission a for sibling artist-engineering team who feel obliged to give back to an event that gave them so much. RIP Larry. I hope somehow in death you feel all the love and beauty that Burning Man inspired.

sytelus 9y ago
While the Burning Man experience had been one of the unforgettable for me, I'd spent at least a day there forced to think about economics of it all. The ticket to BM cost big money for most people ($450 + $80 vehicle pass). For example, right now the tickets are priced at $1200 per person at the official website. This is a significant revenues for the organizers with 50,000 attendees. I couldn't wonder but thinking why cost is so high? There is virtually no services provided by the organizers except for portable potties (which BTW stinks all over and is perhaps the biggest factor in ruining the whole experience). Almost all of the labor and even lot of material is provided by largely unpaid volunteers. I understand there is grants made to many artists, but still I'm not sure if some organizers have probably created this whole scheme to make a living out of this. There is not much of an explanation on why tickets are so pricey while number of attendees have kept increasing every year while the costs should have almost remained more or less same because of lack of services. I was also surprised that while folks are encouraged to give and take gifts and keep the whole thing free of cash, there is indeed commercial establishment to serve coffee. Why can't it be made free? A cup of coffee costs less than $1 to make (especially when you have volunteer labor). Even if a person drinks 5 cups a day, 5 times a week - it's still $25. For a ticket that costs $400+ isn't that doable that would allow to make the event truly cashless and keep the spirit of the event?

zanek 9y ago

Burning Man has been one of the 3 most important events in my life ! I never met Larry Harvey but he seemed like an amazing man. I learned so much about myself, life and everything in between going to it. I've gone almost 7 times, but havent gone in the last 5 years. I really loved some of the snippets from this article about Larry. The bit about someone waking him up at 4am with a chainsaw to work on an ice sculpture made me laugh outloud. Definitely par for course at Burning Man, and his reaction says alot about him. RIP http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/larry-harvey-founder-and-leader-of-burning-man-dies-in-san-francisco/ar-AAwtwQx?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=iehp http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/larry-harvey-founder-and-le...

bredren 9y ago

This is a cute story, but for folks considering attending bartering of any kind at the burn is not a thing.

dang 9y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16950705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16950705 and marked it off-topic.
mlevental 9y ago
umm isn't that exactly the opposite of what you always hear?
- _s 9y ago
  Not quite - giving without any expectation of receiving is very different to bartering.
- sowbug 9y ago
  Money isn't permitted except for the initial tickets, as well as coffee/ice (all of which are sold by the organizers). It's otherwise a gift economy. Reciprocation is fine, except that the initial gift shouldn't be given with the expectation of reciprocation. It's a subtle difference, but it works out OK. Some would probably object to the term "economy" as well -- you're supposed to have arrived with everything you need to survive, so all the exchanging is just for fun.
  - aurelius12 9y ago
    You can also purchase RV pumpouts with cash on the spot, which is not sold by the organizers.
- jwegan 9y ago
  Correct, this is what everyone always hears about Burning Man. However, the idea that bartering happens at Burning Man is the most common misconnection. It is also how you can pick out that someone has never been to Burning Man (at least not recently). I've been 5 years and from what I gather there was some bartering >10 years ago (not sure the exact date, but my impression is it was in the 90s). However, it shifted to a "gifting" economy where you give out gifts with no expectation of return and any Burner who hears that characterized as bartering would be quick to correct you.

jph 9y ago

Thank you Larry. Burning Man photos that are favorites of mine by many photographers: http://www.joelparkerhenderson.com/burningman/ http://www.joelparkerhenderson.com/burningman/ Photos are by many people during many years.

bdcs 9y ago

A beautiful article of a beautiful man. So it goes. I will remain forever* transformed due to him. * Until I die, I suppose :)

mindfulhack 9y ago

Burning Man has changed my life. It will continue to for as long as I live.

almostApatriot1 9y ago

“I don’t think black folks like to camp as much as white folks”. - Larry Harvey on why there are so few black people at Burning Man[0] [0]https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/sep/04/burning-man-founder-larry-harvey-race-diversity-silicon-valley https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/sep/04/burning-man-...

yesforwhat 9y ago
really?
chrischen 9y ago
You have to be somewhat privileged to have this level of self-actualizing activity on your activity list.
rizwank 9y ago
As a person of South Asian decent, I can validate how few people I attribute it to a first and second generation community - if you already have a community to call your own, you are less likely to search for others. I’m alternative enough to be interested; and don’t identify with that cultural background much. Often I’m alone in alternative subcultures - gaming, the burn, the poly scene, etc.

mattnewton 9y ago

I had many enlightenments from burning man and I hope to have many more; the participants are worthy successors once they pick up the dance, and so I think the event will go on. One of my favorite memories is an early night at my first burn, there was a man on a stool with a walkie-talkie checking ID to enter the base of The Man. I didn’t have my ID on me, but I patiently lined up with everyone else, planning on explaining that I only wanted to see the inside with my friends and wasn’t planning on drinking tonight at all. Before reaching the man on the stool, someone in front of us made a break for it past him. He barked angrily at the guy, grabbing at him and shouting into his handset. When it came to me, at this point I thought my chances were slim and I would have to sit this attraction out without an ID. I explained my situation to him anyways. I will never forgot his reply: “I am just fucking with you all” he said, a twinkle in his eye. Indeed, there was only an air of official-ness around his outfit and stool, he had no real authority. We all just accepted a queue for ID checks voluntarily. I walked past and learned more about society from that one prank than I had from any textbook or class since. And that is just one experience. I hope to carry that on that tradition. There is a real magic in culture, and I am thankful that Larry stumbled upon it and decided to share. Thank you, and thanks to everyone who keeps it going!

gargarplex 9y ago
The opening chapter of Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian has a story like that except a bit more intense. Indeed, when you realize how much of human experience runs on autopilot and you try to consciously evolve past that, you can feel manic and begin to feel like anything is possible.
- Swizec 9y ago
  > begin to feel like anything is possible You can do whatever you want. As long as you can bear the consequences.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    The consequences are usually an illusion.

stelliosk 9y ago

But will he be cremated?

rladd 9y ago

Back in the day (around 1995) I used to go to parties that Larry Harvey and Marion (who called herself Maid Marion at the time) used to also go to. I was told that the original burning man was an effigy of Larry's ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend. At the time you could even find this story online in a number of places. Mysteriously, it seems to have been purged from the web. But I still believe it to be true, based on who told me and when.

ianai 9y ago

Is it ever brought up whether Burning Man is based on the Zozobra?

olivermarks 9y ago

I went in 2007 and keep saying I will go again. Last year I watched all the videos here https://burners.me/shadow-history/ https://burners.me/shadow-history/ and found it very interesting and intriguing. An insider's perspective on the BM organization. Downloading the slide decks gives an overview of the materials.

dolzenko 9y ago

> anti-establishment, anti-consumerist Can't help but feel there is something insincere in that statement, I mean somehow it seems like exactly the product of consumerist society to me (I mean the attendance cost, cost of setting up you "booth" (?) there), so I wonder if somebody feels the same/gave it more thought.

artur_makly 9y ago

more on Larry : https://larry.burningman.org/ https://larry.burningman.org/