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Tesla Driver Banned from Highway After Being Caught in the Passenger Seat

37 points by ourmandave 9y ago

dogma1138 9y ago
What the hell is banned form the highway? They should simply take away his license.
- moonka 9y ago
  Yea, seems like a pretty severe under-reaction to only ban him from that specific highway. And for only 18 months at that. An 18 month license suspension seems more reasonable.
  - lordelph 9y ago
    He was indeed banned for 18 months - the article must have misinterpreted the story. Here's a BBC News article covering it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-439345...
  - dingaling 9y ago
    "The Queen's Highway" is an archaic a sounding but still valid way of referring to public roads ( and footpaths ) in the UK. To be banned from driving on the highway is to be banished to private grounds.
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  And an investigation into tesla’s autopilot attention detection system
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- grzm 9y ago
  Following through to the associated BBC article, the language used there is “disqualified”, which, as I understand, is a license suspension. It’s often useful to drill down further to get closer to the actual source in cases like this to avoid reading too much into language that may be imprecise or used with journalistic license. In this case, I don’t know what technically it would mean to be “banned from the highway” other than to have one’s license suspended or revoked.
  - anonoholic 9y ago
    Not just imprecise, but outright incorrect: "He’s been banned from the M1 for eighteen months" (the M1 being a specific motorway). No, he's banned from driving.
- selimthegrim 9y ago
  He was actually banned from driving entirely, the jalopnik article is incorrect.
  - _pmf_ 9y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence
- ghaff 9y ago
  A quick Google suggests that the disqualified in the original BBC story means he had his license suspended which makes a lot more sense.
- m-i-l 9y ago
  The BBC article the original article links to[0] says he was disqualified for 18 months, which means he is banned for driving on any road for that time and has to reapply for his licence at the end of that period[1]. [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-439345... [1] https://www.gov.uk/driving-disqualifications https://www.gov.uk/driving-disqualifications
- trumped 9y ago
  30 miles an hour in the passenger seat in a neighborhood full of kids is ok, that's why ... then they can claim terrorism, and get free rein to create a few more laws if an accident happens...
moonka 9y ago
Looks like the legend of the Cruise Control RV[1] has become real. [1]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cruise-uncontrol/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cruise-uncontrol/
aphextron 9y ago
Seems like a huge oversight that Tesla didn’t make autopilot conditional on sensing a person in the driver’s seat.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- nielsole 9y ago
  I've never been in a Tesla, but they have that prevention by detecting hands on the wheel. There are ways around that using e.g. oranges and sticking them into the steering wheel
  - stevep98 9y ago
    I have a tesla and until recently I misunderstood how the hand detection works. It actually doesn’t detect grip, rather it sense slight resistance to its motors moving the wheel. Also, there is another safeguard... it will warn you when you disconnect the drivers seatbelt. I think the earnings are adequate. There are not much alternatives, as deactivating autopilot could potentially be more dangerous
- anonoholic 9y ago
  I really don't understand why the only response to a driver being hands-off is a "reminder". It should immediately start decelerating and moving to the side of the road, coming to a complete stop if safe to do so, "limping" if not.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    The M1 is a motorway. That means there's normally 3 lanes (but I think 4 here) and a hard shoulder, traffic travelling at 70 mph (if they're obeying the speed limit), and no stopping allowed. I agree the reminder needs to be stronger, but it's not possible to safely slow or stop on English motorways. Here's the road on Google maps: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.793955,-0.4119246,3a,75y,153.53h,82.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgPB5G_IYr01h3DA-CFrMAg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DgPB5G_IYr01h3DA-CFrMAg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D102.82819%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.793955,-0.4119246,3a,75y,1... I don't know which direction he was travelling.
userbinator 9y ago
A Tesla engineer who testified in the court case reiterated that autopilot is intended to assist a “fully attentive driver” ...which has a hard time being "fully attentive" when the car (mostly) drives itself. On the other hand, given the recent head-on-into-a-divider incident, I'd say using it has become worse than manually driving since you now have to correct it when it surprises you by suddenly steering into obstacles.
- nnf 9y ago
  The Tesla in the recent accident you reference did not “suddenly steer into” the divider. As other owners have since shown, the car centered itself between what it interpreted as lane markers marking a lane but which were actually two outside markers diverging as the highway split. Edit: while the end result of both “steered into” and “failed to avoid” an obstacle are the same, the method is very different. If a car suddenly steers into an obstacle, an attentive driver might not be able to react quickly enough to avoid it, whereas driving straight into something the car fails to see is very unlikely with an attentive driver.
  - hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
    You're splitting hairs on the definition of "suddenly". It only took a couple seconds for the Tesla to go off the main road's path and drive straight into the divider.
    - userbinator 9y ago
      There's a video of someone reproducing this (and not crashing) on YouTube --- he managed to stop the car in time, but still came awfully close to the divider, and this is someone who was likely paying a lot more attention at the time than the typical autopilot user. To have to fight the autopilot and correct the wrong decisions it sometimes makes is what makes it scarier than manual driving, since in the latter case you don't have to fight where the car goes --- unless the steering/suspension is defective or the road is very uneven, it will go in a straight line with no driver input.
  - 9y ago
oldcynic 9y ago
Please change link to the BBC story[0] this Jalopnik article links to, as this is riddled with errors. "Note that this took place in England, so the left-hand side is the driver side" No, in UK we drive on the left, the driver side is the right of the car. He was not banned from the M1, but banned from driving for 18 months. ie he got his driving licence suspended. Neither does one pay the Crown Prosecution (a clue to their role) Services (also CPS is Crown Prosecution Service singular) one's fine. That's enough proof reading :) [0] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504
maltalex 9y ago
That's just one of the reasons why some intermediate levels of autonomous driving are scary. Drivers get a false sense of safety and stop paying attention. This case is just one extreme example, but I'm sure that many of the drivers that stay in their seat are just as absent as this guy.
petecox 9y ago
In perhaps a decade, lawmakers will mandate real time telemetry and remote emergency autopilot.
NinoScript 9y ago
Why is it called "auto-pilot"? It should be "auto-COpilot"
- dbasedweeb 9y ago
  Or even better, active lane control/assist, but of course Tesla is all about marketing to the hilt. If the “Gigafactory” were being honest it would be, “Panasonic with a Tesla sicker.”
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Yeah, all those lies from Tesla about rewriting the code for the robots at the Gigafactory, and Grohmann shipping a big automated thing to the Gigafactory, they've confused everyone into thinking that all of the IP isn't Panasonic. And the teardown guy who was raving about how awesome Tesla's part of the battery pack was, he must be in on it.

37 points by ourmandave 9y ago

dogma1138 9y ago

What the hell is banned form the highway? They should simply take away his license.

moonka 9y ago
Yea, seems like a pretty severe under-reaction to only ban him from that specific highway. And for only 18 months at that. An 18 month license suspension seems more reasonable.
- lordelph 9y ago
  He was indeed banned for 18 months - the article must have misinterpreted the story. Here's a BBC News article covering it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-439345...
- dingaling 9y ago
  "The Queen's Highway" is an archaic a sounding but still valid way of referring to public roads ( and footpaths ) in the UK. To be banned from driving on the highway is to be banished to private grounds.
LoSboccacc 9y ago
And an investigation into tesla’s autopilot attention detection system
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
grzm 9y ago
Following through to the associated BBC article, the language used there is “disqualified”, which, as I understand, is a license suspension. It’s often useful to drill down further to get closer to the actual source in cases like this to avoid reading too much into language that may be imprecise or used with journalistic license. In this case, I don’t know what technically it would mean to be “banned from the highway” other than to have one’s license suspended or revoked.
- anonoholic 9y ago
  Not just imprecise, but outright incorrect: "He’s been banned from the M1 for eighteen months" (the M1 being a specific motorway). No, he's banned from driving.
selimthegrim 9y ago
He was actually banned from driving entirely, the jalopnik article is incorrect.
- _pmf_ 9y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence
ghaff 9y ago
A quick Google suggests that the disqualified in the original BBC story means he had his license suspended which makes a lot more sense.
m-i-l 9y ago
The BBC article the original article links to[0] says he was disqualified for 18 months, which means he is banned for driving on any road for that time and has to reapply for his licence at the end of that period[1]. [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-439345... [1] https://www.gov.uk/driving-disqualifications https://www.gov.uk/driving-disqualifications
trumped 9y ago
30 miles an hour in the passenger seat in a neighborhood full of kids is ok, that's why ... then they can claim terrorism, and get free rein to create a few more laws if an accident happens...

moonka 9y ago

Looks like the legend of the Cruise Control RV[1] has become real. [1]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cruise-uncontrol/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cruise-uncontrol/

aphextron 9y ago

Seems like a huge oversight that Tesla didn’t make autopilot conditional on sensing a person in the driver’s seat.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nielsole 9y ago
I've never been in a Tesla, but they have that prevention by detecting hands on the wheel. There are ways around that using e.g. oranges and sticking them into the steering wheel
- stevep98 9y ago
  I have a tesla and until recently I misunderstood how the hand detection works. It actually doesn’t detect grip, rather it sense slight resistance to its motors moving the wheel. Also, there is another safeguard... it will warn you when you disconnect the drivers seatbelt. I think the earnings are adequate. There are not much alternatives, as deactivating autopilot could potentially be more dangerous
anonoholic 9y ago
I really don't understand why the only response to a driver being hands-off is a "reminder". It should immediately start decelerating and moving to the side of the road, coming to a complete stop if safe to do so, "limping" if not.
- DanBC 9y ago
  The M1 is a motorway. That means there's normally 3 lanes (but I think 4 here) and a hard shoulder, traffic travelling at 70 mph (if they're obeying the speed limit), and no stopping allowed. I agree the reminder needs to be stronger, but it's not possible to safely slow or stop on English motorways. Here's the road on Google maps: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.793955,-0.4119246,3a,75y,153.53h,82.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgPB5G_IYr01h3DA-CFrMAg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DgPB5G_IYr01h3DA-CFrMAg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D102.82819%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.793955,-0.4119246,3a,75y,1... I don't know which direction he was travelling.

userbinator 9y ago

A Tesla engineer who testified in the court case reiterated that autopilot is intended to assist a “fully attentive driver” ...which has a hard time being "fully attentive" when the car (mostly) drives itself. On the other hand, given the recent head-on-into-a-divider incident, I'd say using it has become worse than manually driving since you now have to correct it when it surprises you by suddenly steering into obstacles.

nnf 9y ago
The Tesla in the recent accident you reference did not “suddenly steer into” the divider. As other owners have since shown, the car centered itself between what it interpreted as lane markers marking a lane but which were actually two outside markers diverging as the highway split. Edit: while the end result of both “steered into” and “failed to avoid” an obstacle are the same, the method is very different. If a car suddenly steers into an obstacle, an attentive driver might not be able to react quickly enough to avoid it, whereas driving straight into something the car fails to see is very unlikely with an attentive driver.
- hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
  You're splitting hairs on the definition of "suddenly". It only took a couple seconds for the Tesla to go off the main road's path and drive straight into the divider.
  - userbinator 9y ago
    There's a video of someone reproducing this (and not crashing) on YouTube --- he managed to stop the car in time, but still came awfully close to the divider, and this is someone who was likely paying a lot more attention at the time than the typical autopilot user. To have to fight the autopilot and correct the wrong decisions it sometimes makes is what makes it scarier than manual driving, since in the latter case you don't have to fight where the car goes --- unless the steering/suspension is defective or the road is very uneven, it will go in a straight line with no driver input.
- 9y ago

oldcynic 9y ago

Please change link to the BBC story[0] this Jalopnik article links to, as this is riddled with errors. "Note that this took place in England, so the left-hand side is the driver side" No, in UK we drive on the left, the driver side is the right of the car. He was not banned from the M1, but banned from driving for 18 months. ie he got his driving licence suspended. Neither does one pay the Crown Prosecution (a clue to their role) Services (also CPS is Crown Prosecution Service singular) one's fine. That's enough proof reading :) [0] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43934504

maltalex 9y ago

That's just one of the reasons why some intermediate levels of autonomous driving are scary. Drivers get a false sense of safety and stop paying attention. This case is just one extreme example, but I'm sure that many of the drivers that stay in their seat are just as absent as this guy.

petecox 9y ago

In perhaps a decade, lawmakers will mandate real time telemetry and remote emergency autopilot.

NinoScript 9y ago

Why is it called "auto-pilot"? It should be "auto-COpilot"

dbasedweeb 9y ago
Or even better, active lane control/assist, but of course Tesla is all about marketing to the hilt. If the “Gigafactory” were being honest it would be, “Panasonic with a Tesla sicker.”
- greglindahl 9y ago
  Yeah, all those lies from Tesla about rewriting the code for the robots at the Gigafactory, and Grohmann shipping a big automated thing to the Gigafactory, they've confused everyone into thinking that all of the IP isn't Panasonic. And the teardown guy who was raving about how awesome Tesla's part of the battery pack was, he must be in on it.