3 ms·

I don't see why they should put up with someone else manufacturing Microsoft-branded discs and distributing them.

AWebOfBrown 9y ago
Because laws and the consequences for breaking some of them are often morally questionable to a large portion of society. Compounding that, the judiciaries' understanding of esoteric technical topics can be sub-par, and a juries' interpretation can be as predictable as a coin-toss. That's all to say that, when you are contributing to robbing someone of their freedom, you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so. In this instance, I think many would arrive at the conclusion that Microsoft did not.
joecool1029 9y ago
It was a screwup on his part to duplicate the trademarks. Should have just been 'repairco's windows 7 reinstallation discs for old dells' or something to that effect. If its a major OEM machine like dell/lenovo/hp, there are OEM specific keys in the BIOS. This is why they use manufacturer cd's and not retail ones (fairly certain you can't use microsoft downloaded iso for an oem, but correct me if wrong) You need a certificate component, the bios slic strings, and a OEM key off the coa: http://www.squidworks.net/2015/03/how-to-windows-7-oem-activation/ http://www.squidworks.net/2015/03/how-to-windows-7-oem-activ... Point being, if the OEM stopped providing the discs and he only charged to cover costs of the medium without profiting I fail to see Microsoft's logic here. EDIT: I stand corrected, they weren't selling these discs for a quarter as articles reported.
- DanBC 9y ago
  He didn't just duplicate the trademarks. He went out of his way to make the discs identical to the real discs. Some of his product was rejected by his customer because they were not identical. > he only charged to cover costs of the medium without profiting This was a profit making venture. You can see his invoices here: https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/2LUNDGREN6.pdf https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/2LU...
  - joecool1029 9y ago
    Thanks for that. Tech jouralism really is dead I guess. In the articles I read nobody seemed to know you need an OEM cert to activate an OEM key and nobody bothered to read the exhibit where they talk about ebay'ing discs for $30-$40 and getting a steady cash stream.
- arthurfm 9y ago
  > fairly certain you can't use Microsoft downloaded iso for an oem ISOs downloaded through Microsoft's Windows Media Creation Tool [1] will read the product key from the BIOS of OEM PCs that were sold with Windows 10 and will auto-activate when connected to the Internet. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10
  - joecool1029 9y ago
    Yeah that's for Windows 10 (and 8)with UEFI and secureboot. This is a recycler and the systems described are mostly win7 and xp sp3. I don't think that installer will work for SLIC OEM keys in oldskool bios.
    - syshum 9y ago
      BIOS embedded Lic started to appear with windows 7. Windows XP did not have have BIOS embedded Software Licenses but windows 7 did via some vendors (Dell was one of them)
      - joecool1029 9y ago
        I'm aware and being careful to distinguish retail from large OEM's. The large OEM's had embedded strings in their bios (SLIC/SLP), a cert on the installer, and a coa slapped on the case somewhere Vista had slic keys as well. XP had SLP oem keys which I'm a bit less familiar with. This site is like a black hole of messy information on the topic: http://dellwindowsreinstallationguide.com/ http://dellwindowsreinstallationguide.com/ Somewhere deep in the bowels of it is a section on how to tell which version of windows (xp/vista/7) your oem system is licensed up to. It involves using rw-everything and looking at sliic table version. I have upgraded a dell vista system to a valid 7 license in the past by doing official bios update (updates the slic version) and doing a clean install.
        arthurfm 9y ago
        > It involves using rw-everything and looking at SLIC table version. There's a much easier method that automates all of that for you: the Multi-OEM/Retail Project (MRP) [1]. This queries the SLIC or MSDM tables for you during the installation of Windows and enables you to create a single DVD or USB drive that works with OEM PCs from 131 different manufacturers. All you have to do is copy the included '$oem$' folder to the 'sources' folder of your Windows 10, 8.x, 7 or Windows Vista ISO/USB and it takes care of the rest. The MRP is designed to determine what motherboard manufacturer is fitted and find the DMI, (board information), to then check against a database to pick the right theme, logo's etc. Along side this, if the computer has either a MSDM key or SLIC within the bios, to check that against the database and attempt to allow LEGAL activation as the Computer's OEM suppliers would do. For those with a Windows 10 Digital Licence (HWID), or MSDM key your computer should auto-activate when you go online, providing you have installed the correct Edition for the HWID/MSDM key. [1] https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/multi-oem-retail-project-mrp-mk3.71555/ https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/multi-oem-retail-pr...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
kahnpro 9y ago
They shouldn't. But criminal penalties? Jail time? Are you kidding?
- ferongr 9y ago
  Well, it was a commercial, for profit enterprise.
  - vezycash 9y ago
    Let's assume the ffg scenarios: * Some people don't know how to download ISO files from the internet. Or even how to use them * Some have poor internet / limited bandwidth * Their laptops isn't booting and don't want their files wiped by recovery mode If a technician is to provide repair discs to people in this scenario - no Windows Keys - should the technician customers this disc for free?
    - ferongr 9y ago
      This "thought experiment" has nothing to with the case at hand i.e. selling counterfeit recovery disks with identical labels and marking for profit.
  - strathmeyer 9y ago
    Damn how much jail time has Microsoft done for the stuff they've been found guilty of?

Because laws and the consequences for breaking some of them are often morally questionable to a large portion of society. Compounding that, the judiciaries' understanding of esoteric technical topics can be sub-par, and a juries' interpretation can be as predictable as a coin-toss. That's all to say that, when you are contributing to robbing someone of their freedom, you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so. In this instance, I think many would arrive at the conclusion that Microsoft did not.

joecool1029 9y ago

It was a screwup on his part to duplicate the trademarks. Should have just been 'repairco's windows 7 reinstallation discs for old dells' or something to that effect. If its a major OEM machine like dell/lenovo/hp, there are OEM specific keys in the BIOS. This is why they use manufacturer cd's and not retail ones (fairly certain you can't use microsoft downloaded iso for an oem, but correct me if wrong) You need a certificate component, the bios slic strings, and a OEM key off the coa: http://www.squidworks.net/2015/03/how-to-windows-7-oem-activation/ http://www.squidworks.net/2015/03/how-to-windows-7-oem-activ... Point being, if the OEM stopped providing the discs and he only charged to cover costs of the medium without profiting I fail to see Microsoft's logic here. EDIT: I stand corrected, they weren't selling these discs for a quarter as articles reported.

DanBC 9y ago
He didn't just duplicate the trademarks. He went out of his way to make the discs identical to the real discs. Some of his product was rejected by his customer because they were not identical. > he only charged to cover costs of the medium without profiting This was a profit making venture. You can see his invoices here: https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/2LUNDGREN6.pdf https://blogs.microsoft.com/uploads/prod/sites/5/2018/04/2LU...
- joecool1029 9y ago
  Thanks for that. Tech jouralism really is dead I guess. In the articles I read nobody seemed to know you need an OEM cert to activate an OEM key and nobody bothered to read the exhibit where they talk about ebay'ing discs for $30-$40 and getting a steady cash stream.
arthurfm 9y ago
> fairly certain you can't use Microsoft downloaded iso for an oem ISOs downloaded through Microsoft's Windows Media Creation Tool [1] will read the product key from the BIOS of OEM PCs that were sold with Windows 10 and will auto-activate when connected to the Internet. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10
- joecool1029 9y ago
  Yeah that's for Windows 10 (and 8)with UEFI and secureboot. This is a recycler and the systems described are mostly win7 and xp sp3. I don't think that installer will work for SLIC OEM keys in oldskool bios.
  - syshum 9y ago
    BIOS embedded Lic started to appear with windows 7. Windows XP did not have have BIOS embedded Software Licenses but windows 7 did via some vendors (Dell was one of them)
    - joecool1029 9y ago
      I'm aware and being careful to distinguish retail from large OEM's. The large OEM's had embedded strings in their bios (SLIC/SLP), a cert on the installer, and a coa slapped on the case somewhere Vista had slic keys as well. XP had SLP oem keys which I'm a bit less familiar with. This site is like a black hole of messy information on the topic: http://dellwindowsreinstallationguide.com/ http://dellwindowsreinstallationguide.com/ Somewhere deep in the bowels of it is a section on how to tell which version of windows (xp/vista/7) your oem system is licensed up to. It involves using rw-everything and looking at sliic table version. I have upgraded a dell vista system to a valid 7 license in the past by doing official bios update (updates the slic version) and doing a clean install.
      - arthurfm 9y ago
        > It involves using rw-everything and looking at SLIC table version. There's a much easier method that automates all of that for you: the Multi-OEM/Retail Project (MRP) [1]. This queries the SLIC or MSDM tables for you during the installation of Windows and enables you to create a single DVD or USB drive that works with OEM PCs from 131 different manufacturers. All you have to do is copy the included '$oem$' folder to the 'sources' folder of your Windows 10, 8.x, 7 or Windows Vista ISO/USB and it takes care of the rest. The MRP is designed to determine what motherboard manufacturer is fitted and find the DMI, (board information), to then check against a database to pick the right theme, logo's etc. Along side this, if the computer has either a MSDM key or SLIC within the bios, to check that against the database and attempt to allow LEGAL activation as the Computer's OEM suppliers would do. For those with a Windows 10 Digital Licence (HWID), or MSDM key your computer should auto-activate when you go online, providing you have installed the correct Edition for the HWID/MSDM key. [1] https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/multi-oem-retail-project-mrp-mk3.71555/ https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/multi-oem-retail-pr...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

kahnpro 9y ago

They shouldn't. But criminal penalties? Jail time? Are you kidding?

ferongr 9y ago
Well, it was a commercial, for profit enterprise.
- vezycash 9y ago
  Let's assume the ffg scenarios: * Some people don't know how to download ISO files from the internet. Or even how to use them * Some have poor internet / limited bandwidth * Their laptops isn't booting and don't want their files wiped by recovery mode If a technician is to provide repair discs to people in this scenario - no Windows Keys - should the technician customers this disc for free?
  - ferongr 9y ago
    This "thought experiment" has nothing to with the case at hand i.e. selling counterfeit recovery disks with identical labels and marking for profit.
- strathmeyer 9y ago
  Damn how much jail time has Microsoft done for the stuff they've been found guilty of?