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I can’t believe a comment which literally calls Europeans commies is this highly upvoted on HN. That’s why I’m smh.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
holydude 9y ago
European mentality is really a lax commie mentality masquarading as good left wingy social democracy when in fact it is not. They just want to do capitalism somewhere else and reap the benefits to save face and pretend they are somewhat better than the capitalist nations in the north america and asia.
- leadingthenet 9y ago
  I didn’t think people like you actually existed.
  - dijit 9y ago
    This is not a helpful argument. Please try to rebuff his points if you don't agree with them.
    - leadingthenet 9y ago
      Mate, no offense, but there’s nothing to rebuff. When you are that far gone, people should have the right to mock you. Spouting meaningless platitudes does not an argument make, and we’d only be feeding his stupidity by answering any of those, frankly, ridiculous points. I mean, just look at the fantastic discussion your rebuff started.
      - throwaway84742 9y ago
        “Far gone” is a matter of perspective. To me, you seem like you are “far gone”. And who’s to say that your perspective is more valid than mine.
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    I know, these people are cartoonish. I thought they only existed in American movies.
- dijit 9y ago
  To save us talking about ill defined social policies, I'm going to quickly define them (I'm not being condescending, it is easy for people to infer meaning from things like this) * Capitalism is an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. * Communism a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs. * Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. Doing any single one of these is a possible disaster, I won't get into the theories here, but lets assume extremes are unhealthy. Now, you're inferring that Europeans are "lax commies" which would mean that the goal is to get everything into the public hands. That's not quite the case, in fact it's not the case at all honestly, so it's not communism. Secondly, you refer to Europe as one political and economic model, it's not, there are many for instance the Nordic regions have their own model which is often referred to as "Nordic Capitalism" or "Nordic Social Democracy"[0] Finally, and I know this one is quite hard: Europeans typically are not nationalistic. Given that the rise of nationalism is seen as being very closely followed by facism; nationalism is a dirty word, and if you were to be described as "nationalist" it would be considered an insult in many European countries by the majority of the population. The principle problem here is that "patriotism" is synonymous with "nationalism". And Americans are very "patriotic", meaning any criticism of the country as a complete functioning system is met with hostility because so many people are so sensitive of the subject. I know it's hard to be objective when you've been drilled that your way of life is objectively "better" or "freer", but its often good to take a step back and look at the system so that - at the very least - you can hold your government to account for "why can't we do healthcare too, since we pay more per person for it in taxes anyway". [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
  - throwaway84742 9y ago
    I would like to point out, however, that aside from Norway (which sits on a huge barrel of hydrocarbons) all of the countries mentioned are significantly worse off in terms of per capita GDP (PPP). So it might just be that capitalism is not such a total disaster as you suggest.
- mpweiher 9y ago
  Hmm...if we're doing "capitalism somewhere else" and "reaping the benefits", do tell me how come German companies are beating US companies left and right in the marketplace? It's the US that can't compete, as shown by the amazing trade deficits that have been in place since the 80s, and in fact, the rest of the world is subsidizing this deficit. US wealth is, to a large extent, borrowed wealth.
  - holydude 9y ago
    Where and how are the german companies beating the US ? US wealth is borrowed wealth ? From whom did they borrow it then ?
    - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
      > Where and how are the german companies beating the US ? Have you seen many American cars on the road lately? Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually expecting an answer.
      - holydude 9y ago
        I did in Norway :-). Seriously picking a car industry which is and always had been different in the US than in Eu is a shitty example to prove a point. If it would not be for your liberal americans throwing billions at your german cars they would be nothing compared to what they are now. Ever been to SK ? How many non korean cars have you seen ? The entire IT industry dwarfs everything Europe has or will have in the next decades and still it is just a fraction of the US of A produces or trades with the world. Besides Germany is your China of europe dumping shit to weaker markets en masse. Just looking at the list of largest german companies gives you a hint of how Germany really operates.
        fwdpropaganda 9y ago
        > Seriously picking a car industry which is and always had been different in the US than in Eu is a shitty example to prove a point. (etc) I'm not trying to "prove a point". You asked for an example ("Where and how are the german companies beating the US ?") and I gave you one: German car companies are beating american car companies in the us. So before you change the subject into china, south korea, the IT industry, weaker markets, mass production, and so on and on, can you first acknowledge that you asked for an example of German companies beating american ones, and I gave you exactly one such example?
dang 9y ago
The comment was not only downvoted but flagkilled. It takes time for the community's reaction to settle. There's something more important though: you helped make this horrible flamewar worse. If you post something like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16946815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16946815, you have no basis to complain about others. If you saw a house on fire, or a forest, or a city park, I'm sure your first reaction wouldn't be to pour fuel on it. Please bring that instinct for good behavior here too. It's not as obvious that it's needed, but it is.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

European mentality is really a lax commie mentality masquarading as good left wingy social democracy when in fact it is not. They just want to do capitalism somewhere else and reap the benefits to save face and pretend they are somewhat better than the capitalist nations in the north america and asia.

leadingthenet 9y ago
I didn’t think people like you actually existed.
- dijit 9y ago
  This is not a helpful argument. Please try to rebuff his points if you don't agree with them.
  - leadingthenet 9y ago
    Mate, no offense, but there’s nothing to rebuff. When you are that far gone, people should have the right to mock you. Spouting meaningless platitudes does not an argument make, and we’d only be feeding his stupidity by answering any of those, frankly, ridiculous points. I mean, just look at the fantastic discussion your rebuff started.
    - throwaway84742 9y ago
      “Far gone” is a matter of perspective. To me, you seem like you are “far gone”. And who’s to say that your perspective is more valid than mine.
- fwdpropaganda 9y ago
  I know, these people are cartoonish. I thought they only existed in American movies.
dijit 9y ago
To save us talking about ill defined social policies, I'm going to quickly define them (I'm not being condescending, it is easy for people to infer meaning from things like this) * Capitalism is an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. * Communism a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs. * Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. Doing any single one of these is a possible disaster, I won't get into the theories here, but lets assume extremes are unhealthy. Now, you're inferring that Europeans are "lax commies" which would mean that the goal is to get everything into the public hands. That's not quite the case, in fact it's not the case at all honestly, so it's not communism. Secondly, you refer to Europe as one political and economic model, it's not, there are many for instance the Nordic regions have their own model which is often referred to as "Nordic Capitalism" or "Nordic Social Democracy"[0] Finally, and I know this one is quite hard: Europeans typically are not nationalistic. Given that the rise of nationalism is seen as being very closely followed by facism; nationalism is a dirty word, and if you were to be described as "nationalist" it would be considered an insult in many European countries by the majority of the population. The principle problem here is that "patriotism" is synonymous with "nationalism". And Americans are very "patriotic", meaning any criticism of the country as a complete functioning system is met with hostility because so many people are so sensitive of the subject. I know it's hard to be objective when you've been drilled that your way of life is objectively "better" or "freer", but its often good to take a step back and look at the system so that - at the very least - you can hold your government to account for "why can't we do healthcare too, since we pay more per person for it in taxes anyway". [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
- throwaway84742 9y ago
  I would like to point out, however, that aside from Norway (which sits on a huge barrel of hydrocarbons) all of the countries mentioned are significantly worse off in terms of per capita GDP (PPP). So it might just be that capitalism is not such a total disaster as you suggest.
mpweiher 9y ago
Hmm...if we're doing "capitalism somewhere else" and "reaping the benefits", do tell me how come German companies are beating US companies left and right in the marketplace? It's the US that can't compete, as shown by the amazing trade deficits that have been in place since the 80s, and in fact, the rest of the world is subsidizing this deficit. US wealth is, to a large extent, borrowed wealth.
- holydude 9y ago
  Where and how are the german companies beating the US ? US wealth is borrowed wealth ? From whom did they borrow it then ?
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    > Where and how are the german companies beating the US ? Have you seen many American cars on the road lately? Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually expecting an answer.
    - holydude 9y ago
      I did in Norway :-). Seriously picking a car industry which is and always had been different in the US than in Eu is a shitty example to prove a point. If it would not be for your liberal americans throwing billions at your german cars they would be nothing compared to what they are now. Ever been to SK ? How many non korean cars have you seen ? The entire IT industry dwarfs everything Europe has or will have in the next decades and still it is just a fraction of the US of A produces or trades with the world. Besides Germany is your China of europe dumping shit to weaker markets en masse. Just looking at the list of largest german companies gives you a hint of how Germany really operates.
      - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
        > Seriously picking a car industry which is and always had been different in the US than in Eu is a shitty example to prove a point. (etc) I'm not trying to "prove a point". You asked for an example ("Where and how are the german companies beating the US ?") and I gave you one: German car companies are beating american car companies in the us. So before you change the subject into china, south korea, the IT industry, weaker markets, mass production, and so on and on, can you first acknowledge that you asked for an example of German companies beating american ones, and I gave you exactly one such example?

dang 9y ago

The comment was not only downvoted but flagkilled. It takes time for the community's reaction to settle. There's something more important though: you helped make this horrible flamewar worse. If you post something like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16946815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16946815, you have no basis to complain about others. If you saw a house on fire, or a forest, or a city park, I'm sure your first reaction wouldn't be to pour fuel on it. Please bring that instinct for good behavior here too. It's not as obvious that it's needed, but it is.