9 ms·

Why I Left the U.S. 20 Years Ago and Why I Won't Be Coming Back

38 points by arunc 8y ago

amriksohata 8y ago
There's a thought that the only people that can mentally hack capitalism and the stresses that come with it are a very few number of people, they often becomes owners of companies or directors. The rest of us have to follow the system to work and earn in it and dont always subscribe to it's ideals. That's why I like her courage to use the word brainwashed, something American media think only happens to people of other governments.
- mpweiher 8y ago
  Why do you think the main issue is "can" and not "why on earth would you want to"? I remember a very poignant New Yorker cartoon, with a bunch of elderly gently WASP-ish looking folk and one whispering to another: "Money is life's report card".
javajosh 8y ago
She is on-the-nose about the upsides, but doesn't talk about the downsides enough, IMO. It's tough leaving friends and family behind. Also, the creature comforts! They don't have Costco or Trader Joes or good diners in Europe. Knowing where to buy things, knowing the language (the worst thing is navigating phone trees in another language), knowing how the various systems of which you are a apart work. You realize how much knowledge has seeped into you, almost by osmosis, that you take for granted, and now it's gone. New knowledge will seep in, in time, and meanwhile you must be okay being ignorant, and therefore at risk.
- mpweiher 8y ago
  > creature comforts! They don't have Costco or Trader Joes or good diners Hmm...I think you'll find that the creature comforts are actually a lot more comfy in most of Europe, which is of course a very large and diverse area. Of course, it will take you a while to figure those out, because things are different.
- rdiddly 8y ago
  It's funny about the social connections... I feel like I could emigrate no problem, because I already left everybody behind when I quit Facebook. Or here's a twist, I could rejoin Facebook and "work remote" from anywhere. I've never felt as weak an affinity with the USA as I do now, but habit and inertia have kept me here so far...
- fwdpropaganda 8y ago
  > They don't have Costco or Trader Joes or good diners in Europe. That you include chains of whatever on the list of downsides to leaving your country, says something. Maybe something about you, maybe something about your country. It's not good what it says though. EDIT: I think you might be the kind of person the author is talked about when she says "brainwashed". If the specific franchise of restaurant that you like is such a huge factor in your life, maybe you've just been brainwashed. And this is not even mentioning the breathtaking ignorance of saying there's no good diners "in Europe".
  - d1zzy 8y ago
    Don't dismiss the knowledge of store chains as something silly and bad. It's about life's little needs. You need to know where to buy tons of little items for the right price/quality and moving countries means all that knowledge needs to be rebuilt. Since I buy most of these things from the various chains then yes, moving countries means having discover again the chains/stores that I need. I actually felt this when I moved from Europe to the US. Suddenly I had no idea where to buy food ingredients, kitchen items, etc that weren't too expensive but were not of crappy quality either. Even the relative value of things (ex. is a $4 loaf of bread expensive or cheap? Converting to the previous currency and comparing prices doesn't work at all). Also, Europeans don't realize but the US has a lot more choices for almost everything (well, I guess except broadband Internet and some other things, heh). That's great in general but it's overwhelming to the newcomer.
    - fwdpropaganda 8y ago
      I moved country twice in my life and I never had much trouble with the things you mention. I acknowledge they exist, I just don't agree they're a big thing (in the sense that knowledge can be re-build relatively quickly).
  - zenbai 8y ago
    It reminds me of that dystopian mega simcity city that was on the front page a few days ago. I guess people in that city feel the same ... they need their familiar chains in their cookie cutter neighborhoods or they feel lost.
- Aaargh20318 8y ago
  > They don't have (..) good diners in Europe. LOLWUT ? She mentions she lives in the south of France. I don't think she has to worry about access to good food. Why would anyone who moved to Europe want to go back to the US for their shitty food ?
- mantas 8y ago
  Trader Joes is literally re-labeled European chain.
josephh 8y ago
As a self-proclaimed libertarian, this is the first thing that came to mind: we need more people like her! The more people we have who feel this way and start leaving/fleeing the country, the greater incentive for the society to correct itself in order to minimize the losses.
fwn 8y ago
This otherwise great article is interrupted by a native ad in favor of gun control in the US. While that might be a worthwhile goal as well, I do not get the need for both sides to cram it into so many unrelated pieces.
- wiredearp 8y ago
  It could be argued that shooting your classmates is not that different from backstabbing your office colleguages in order to live out the american dream of coming out on top of everyone else; or at least that is what this guy does in https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e55235 https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-b....
  - fwn 8y ago
    Well, fair enough. The goal should be society mentally healthy enough so people don't want to hurt each other. I understand that people think about that as a technical problem (people hurt through weapons, therefore decrease availability - problem solved) however this is not solving the problem at all: You wouldn't want a society of violent people who just never got the chance to hurt others either. The technicality of decreasing the availability of weapons (which, as said, might as well be valid) feels so out of place in the article since the rest of it is actually about culture. It appears to me that the author points at a cultural problm and then interrupts everything to feature this US gun thing.
ItsMe000001 8y ago
I only want to say something about the "gun" subject in the article, since she gives it a prominent place. I'm from East Germany originally (used to live in the US for a decade). That country was the true successor of Prussia as far as militaristic traditions go. While we did have "gun control", so no weapons other than air guns at home for most people, shooting was very much part of culture. I was taught marching like a professional soldier as part of school, before job training and studying. Same goes for shooting (small caliber weapons), throwing hand grenades (replicas of hand grenades were used in throwing exercises during normal sports lessons), how to use chemical protection gear and a gas mask, and a lot more. The real difference, and this is my point that I think is usually missed about US gun culture, was that never, ever did it occur to me as a gun-obsessed child that if I had more than two air guns at home, or even for those, that I should ever want to use weapons against my fellow citizens. Weapons were always for only three purposes: sports, hunting (organized and government regulated and controlled, not "for fun") and military. In all the discussions about US gun culture, to me this is the far larger factor than just having access to guns, that the thought that this could be used in "self defense" against your own people exists. I sure had a lot of "gun fantasies" as a child and would happily have owned a "real" gun, but never, ever would it have occurred to me that I could use this against people, except for in military conflict. You can restrict access all you want, and I'm sure that will limit some problems, but to me it seems unless there is a much, much deeper change in attitude that will only be a band aid removing the worst symptoms of a problem that goes deeper and is much more broad. This probably cannot be changed though. It's an attitude I find in too many movies produced in the US (unless it's romance or comedy and has no guns), it's all about fighting/shooting people.
- xor1 8y ago
  >the worst symptoms of a problem that goes deeper and is much more broad I think that problem is a mental illness / personality disorder epidemic among Americans under 35 that is being completely ignored.
- duckMuppet 8y ago
  For all her ranting, she seemingly still has a U.S. passport which gives her a great deal more freedom than if she had a passport from central America. Let's see if she renounces her citizenship anytime soon and put her money where her mouth is. I don't find this article particularly offensive, just extremely naive. For all it's problems, in the U.S. we still enjoy both freedom of speech and freedom from the tyranny of socialized govt, both have reared it's ugly head in pretty spectacular ways recently.. Namely, you can end up in jail if you teach your dog to salute at Heil Hitler, or if you decide you want to present the middle finger to your govt overlords on a traffic cam, or if you think you might like to send your child to a different hospital that offers hope, no matter how grim the ultimate outcome, or if you defend yourself in your home from a robber with a knife.. Just to name a few.. The first and second amendments of the U.S. are unlike very few In the world. Statistically most people are very unlikely to encounter such gun crimes like school shootings, but you'd never know that because we have a media and culture driven by ratings and agenda. But there is a lot of truth that people have much less value for life. That's not just a U.S. problem.. I'm a U.S. citizen, so I can criticize the mayor of London openly without fear, but their plans(or talks) to remove any and all knives from stores and the hands of their citizens is a pretty good example.. But no knife, no problem, you can do it pretty effectively with a truck, I recall 80 or so were killed a few years ago, and at least 10 were killed a few days ago in Toronto. And anyone with any sizeable amount of intellect could probably devise a plan that is highly effective by stealing a semi.. Someone with actual intelligence could probably devise a scheme to drop small IED's via drones and could probably be pretty lethal and remain effectively safe from capture, let alone any of the other mainstream methods.. And on top of it all, even with all the gun bans, one of the worst gun massacres in recent history occurred not in the U.S., but good old Europe.. Many countries have effectively banned all weapons, But that just means that the law abiding citizens are the ones who become defenseless.. I've sarcastically argued numerous times that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were fake news, and the people were just made up, after all, such firearms are actually banned there, so such an event isn't actually possible to happen, those weapons are banned.. It gets even better when looking at countries like Mexico, S. America etc, where the police may actually be part of the mob, flip a coin as to whether you'll survive if you call for help (I suppose if your passport is blue or from the euro block they probably try to take care of you for tourism sake).. In any case, I think a recent episode of econtalk with Jonah Goldberg http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2018/04/jonah_goldberg.html http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2018/04/jonah_goldberg.html summed up a lot of truths about the place we are at in our society, especially in the U.S.. It's quite worth a listen.. Because ultimately, though the above is bad, we often forget that gives have historically persecuted people far worse, and though it's 2018 (as if somehow that means something), it's still happening ( IRS/FBI)etc.. Ultimately, These are problems govt cannot solve, and the answer the govt will give might not be an answer that's good, for average Joe at least.. But I do think, in the U.S., It's a road we are heading down..
Aaargh20318 8y ago
This is an interesting article from the point of view of someone living in Europe. She moves away from the US because she wants out of the rat race: > "I grew up believing that having money was an objective to strive for and that life was a ruthless competition. I worked hard in school and got a good job because that was what was expected of me. That was the path that was supposed to bring me happiness, except I followed that path, and I wasn’t happy." Finally, she ends up living in Europe: > "I certainly could say more about the work-life balance provided by the 35-hour workweek, the five weeks of paid vacation I enjoy each year, the two years paid unemployment benefits I would receive should I lose my job, my access to free health care, paid maternity leave, affordable child care, free education from age 3 through to university or the state-provided retirement pension I will receive at age 65." The funny thing is, that as someone who grew up in Europe, with all those things she raves about, I feel exactly like she did in the beginning of the story. I feel like being in the rat race just like she did. Those 5 weeks of paid vacation feel more like an insult than a benefit. You get to taste a little bit of freedom for a short while and then it's back to dayprison. Retirement at 65 is a pipe dream, the boomers spent all the retirement money already and retirement age is slowly rising (currently at 67), by the time I turn 67 in 30 years I'm sure it has been raised even further or more likely there won't be any kind of state pension anymore. Not that I expect to ever get that old. 8 hour workdays are insane, it's an arbitrary number and yet the whole of society is based around it. It leaves people too exhausted to enjoy life and causes so much stress I'm actually surprised anyone makes it to pension age. I fully expect to die of a stress-related heart attack or similar way before I get to enjoy any kind of pension.
- fwdpropaganda 8y ago
  > The funny thing is, that as someone who grew up in Europe, with all those things she raves about, I feel exactly like she did in the beginning of the story. We always want more and better, right? We might be different from the Americans in the details (albeit important ones), but we aren't that different in the big picture worldview.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Ever notice how retirement age is rising at roughly 0.5/years/year ? That means, of course, that by the time someone in their 30s retires it will have moved again. So if politicians want to keep spending like they do now (assuming deficits do not matter and do not raise spending further due to interest), a 30 year old person will retire at age 104 at this rate.
grosjona 8y ago
I wonder if that photo at the top was taken in Guadeloupe? The vibrant green color of the plants and trees seems to indicate this.
- JeanMarcS 8y ago
  Probably. I asked myself the same question, as this is where I live at the moment. So if not Guadeloupe, it surely is somewhere in the Caribbean
knolan 8y ago
As a European looking out the US is often befuddling. The insanity of healthcare, attitude to firearms, extreme media bias and seemingly unquestioning nationalism are worrisome to say the least. I’ve been there several times for conferences and I’ve always been happy to leave. The constant feeling of being bleed for cash at every opportunity coupled with the fake over sincerity is frustrating. As an Irishman there is a strong connection between our countries and many colleagues have made the move and seem happy. I can’t imagine wanting to live there, at least in the world described in the article and around big city conference centers. Also the chocolate is atrocious.
deleted 8y ago
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throwaway84742 8y ago
Choice is still a thing. If you want all those government benefits in exchange for making 1/3rd of what one makes in the US, go right ahead. Their immigration laws are quite a bit more restrictive than ours, so it won’t be easy, but it can be done. There are literally hundreds of millions of people who would like to move here. Tens of millions in South America alone, in spite of long vacations, “free” healthcare, and “pensions”.
- fwdpropaganda 8y ago
  > If you want all those government benefits in exchange for making 1/3rd of what one makes in the US, go right ahead. Over here we don't consider that healthcare and education are a "government benefit". We consider them rights. But you sound slightly offended. Like now you're trying to prove that some people like the USA. You don't have to prove anything dude.
  - throwaway84742 8y ago
    Rights for which the government taxes you through the nose. Thanks, I’d rather pay my “expensive” private insurance while I rake in a ton more cash. Commies, smh
    - leadingthenet 8y ago
      I can’t believe a comment which literally calls Europeans commies is this highly upvoted on HN. That’s why I’m smh.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - holydude 8y ago
        European mentality is really a lax commie mentality masquarading as good left wingy social democracy when in fact it is not. They just want to do capitalism somewhere else and reap the benefits to save face and pretend they are somewhat better than the capitalist nations in the north america and asia.
holydude 8y ago
I have just sold my 1m$ property to move from Europe to the US. Seriously Europe is a fucked up place and I aint coming back.
deleted 8y ago
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kapauldo 8y ago
With culture and social policy, there's no question that the u.s. is irrational. But it's still the land of opportunity and produces most of the innovation in the world. I just wish it wasn't so religious in its thinking a jug hm control and health care, etc.
Alkatori 8y ago
Confused, her information is wrong. I was talking with a French gun owner who owned an AK and AR-15 both chambered in .222 Remington. Just because she doesn't know any gun owners who have them doesn't mean "military style weapons" are banned there.
deleted 8y ago
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dang 8y ago
All: the flamewars that raged in this thread are bannable offenses on HN. It's no excuse that the article was bait; the thing to do was to flag it and move on, as others fortunately did. We're not going to let HN go down in the flames and fumes of nationalistic battles. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't do that. Do this instead: when someone provokes you with an egregious comment, flag it (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html) and/or email us at hn@ycombinator.com to be sure to get moderator attention. Don't reply, and especially don't reply aggressively. In other words, call the fire department, don't pour fuel, and don't start fires of your own. Sounds easy, but it's not, because it requires tolerating the burn of annoyance inside oneself instead of taking it out on the commons. That's actually what tolerance means. It's a physical process, just like any structure can tolerate a certain load before snapping. Containing this energy does not feel good, but it's the capacity we all need to build if if we want this community to survive as a place for curiosity.

38 points by arunc 8y ago

There's a thought that the only people that can mentally hack capitalism and the stresses that come with it are a very few number of people, they often becomes owners of companies or directors. The rest of us have to follow the system to work and earn in it and dont always subscribe to it's ideals. That's why I like her courage to use the word brainwashed, something American media think only happens to people of other governments.

mpweiher 8y ago
Why do you think the main issue is "can" and not "why on earth would you want to"? I remember a very poignant New Yorker cartoon, with a bunch of elderly gently WASP-ish looking folk and one whispering to another: "Money is life's report card".

javajosh 8y ago

She is on-the-nose about the upsides, but doesn't talk about the downsides enough, IMO. It's tough leaving friends and family behind. Also, the creature comforts! They don't have Costco or Trader Joes or good diners in Europe. Knowing where to buy things, knowing the language (the worst thing is navigating phone trees in another language), knowing how the various systems of which you are a apart work. You realize how much knowledge has seeped into you, almost by osmosis, that you take for granted, and now it's gone. New knowledge will seep in, in time, and meanwhile you must be okay being ignorant, and therefore at risk.

mpweiher 8y ago
> creature comforts! They don't have Costco or Trader Joes or good diners Hmm...I think you'll find that the creature comforts are actually a lot more comfy in most of Europe, which is of course a very large and diverse area. Of course, it will take you a while to figure those out, because things are different.
rdiddly 8y ago
It's funny about the social connections... I feel like I could emigrate no problem, because I already left everybody behind when I quit Facebook. Or here's a twist, I could rejoin Facebook and "work remote" from anywhere. I've never felt as weak an affinity with the USA as I do now, but habit and inertia have kept me here so far...
fwdpropaganda 8y ago
> They don't have Costco or Trader Joes or good diners in Europe. That you include chains of whatever on the list of downsides to leaving your country, says something. Maybe something about you, maybe something about your country. It's not good what it says though. EDIT: I think you might be the kind of person the author is talked about when she says "brainwashed". If the specific franchise of restaurant that you like is such a huge factor in your life, maybe you've just been brainwashed. And this is not even mentioning the breathtaking ignorance of saying there's no good diners "in Europe".
- d1zzy 8y ago
  Don't dismiss the knowledge of store chains as something silly and bad. It's about life's little needs. You need to know where to buy tons of little items for the right price/quality and moving countries means all that knowledge needs to be rebuilt. Since I buy most of these things from the various chains then yes, moving countries means having discover again the chains/stores that I need. I actually felt this when I moved from Europe to the US. Suddenly I had no idea where to buy food ingredients, kitchen items, etc that weren't too expensive but were not of crappy quality either. Even the relative value of things (ex. is a $4 loaf of bread expensive or cheap? Converting to the previous currency and comparing prices doesn't work at all). Also, Europeans don't realize but the US has a lot more choices for almost everything (well, I guess except broadband Internet and some other things, heh). That's great in general but it's overwhelming to the newcomer.
  - fwdpropaganda 8y ago
    I moved country twice in my life and I never had much trouble with the things you mention. I acknowledge they exist, I just don't agree they're a big thing (in the sense that knowledge can be re-build relatively quickly).
- zenbai 8y ago
  It reminds me of that dystopian mega simcity city that was on the front page a few days ago. I guess people in that city feel the same ... they need their familiar chains in their cookie cutter neighborhoods or they feel lost.
Aaargh20318 8y ago
> They don't have (..) good diners in Europe. LOLWUT ? She mentions she lives in the south of France. I don't think she has to worry about access to good food. Why would anyone who moved to Europe want to go back to the US for their shitty food ?
mantas 8y ago
Trader Joes is literally re-labeled European chain.

josephh 8y ago

As a self-proclaimed libertarian, this is the first thing that came to mind: we need more people like her! The more people we have who feel this way and start leaving/fleeing the country, the greater incentive for the society to correct itself in order to minimize the losses.

fwn 8y ago

This otherwise great article is interrupted by a native ad in favor of gun control in the US. While that might be a worthwhile goal as well, I do not get the need for both sides to cram it into so many unrelated pieces.

wiredearp 8y ago
It could be argued that shooting your classmates is not that different from backstabbing your office colleguages in order to live out the american dream of coming out on top of everyone else; or at least that is what this guy does in https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e55235 https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-b....
- fwn 8y ago
  Well, fair enough. The goal should be society mentally healthy enough so people don't want to hurt each other. I understand that people think about that as a technical problem (people hurt through weapons, therefore decrease availability - problem solved) however this is not solving the problem at all: You wouldn't want a society of violent people who just never got the chance to hurt others either. The technicality of decreasing the availability of weapons (which, as said, might as well be valid) feels so out of place in the article since the rest of it is actually about culture. It appears to me that the author points at a cultural problm and then interrupts everything to feature this US gun thing.

ItsMe000001 8y ago

I only want to say something about the "gun" subject in the article, since she gives it a prominent place. I'm from East Germany originally (used to live in the US for a decade). That country was the true successor of Prussia as far as militaristic traditions go. While we did have "gun control", so no weapons other than air guns at home for most people, shooting was very much part of culture. I was taught marching like a professional soldier as part of school, before job training and studying. Same goes for shooting (small caliber weapons), throwing hand grenades (replicas of hand grenades were used in throwing exercises during normal sports lessons), how to use chemical protection gear and a gas mask, and a lot more. The real difference, and this is my point that I think is usually missed about US gun culture, was that never, ever did it occur to me as a gun-obsessed child that if I had more than two air guns at home, or even for those, that I should ever want to use weapons against my fellow citizens. Weapons were always for only three purposes: sports, hunting (organized and government regulated and controlled, not "for fun") and military. In all the discussions about US gun culture, to me this is the far larger factor than just having access to guns, that the thought that this could be used in "self defense" against your own people exists. I sure had a lot of "gun fantasies" as a child and would happily have owned a "real" gun, but never, ever would it have occurred to me that I could use this against people, except for in military conflict. You can restrict access all you want, and I'm sure that will limit some problems, but to me it seems unless there is a much, much deeper change in attitude that will only be a band aid removing the worst symptoms of a problem that goes deeper and is much more broad. This probably cannot be changed though. It's an attitude I find in too many movies produced in the US (unless it's romance or comedy and has no guns), it's all about fighting/shooting people.

xor1 8y ago
>the worst symptoms of a problem that goes deeper and is much more broad I think that problem is a mental illness / personality disorder epidemic among Americans under 35 that is being completely ignored.
duckMuppet 8y ago
For all her ranting, she seemingly still has a U.S. passport which gives her a great deal more freedom than if she had a passport from central America. Let's see if she renounces her citizenship anytime soon and put her money where her mouth is. I don't find this article particularly offensive, just extremely naive. For all it's problems, in the U.S. we still enjoy both freedom of speech and freedom from the tyranny of socialized govt, both have reared it's ugly head in pretty spectacular ways recently.. Namely, you can end up in jail if you teach your dog to salute at Heil Hitler, or if you decide you want to present the middle finger to your govt overlords on a traffic cam, or if you think you might like to send your child to a different hospital that offers hope, no matter how grim the ultimate outcome, or if you defend yourself in your home from a robber with a knife.. Just to name a few.. The first and second amendments of the U.S. are unlike very few In the world. Statistically most people are very unlikely to encounter such gun crimes like school shootings, but you'd never know that because we have a media and culture driven by ratings and agenda. But there is a lot of truth that people have much less value for life. That's not just a U.S. problem.. I'm a U.S. citizen, so I can criticize the mayor of London openly without fear, but their plans(or talks) to remove any and all knives from stores and the hands of their citizens is a pretty good example.. But no knife, no problem, you can do it pretty effectively with a truck, I recall 80 or so were killed a few years ago, and at least 10 were killed a few days ago in Toronto. And anyone with any sizeable amount of intellect could probably devise a plan that is highly effective by stealing a semi.. Someone with actual intelligence could probably devise a scheme to drop small IED's via drones and could probably be pretty lethal and remain effectively safe from capture, let alone any of the other mainstream methods.. And on top of it all, even with all the gun bans, one of the worst gun massacres in recent history occurred not in the U.S., but good old Europe.. Many countries have effectively banned all weapons, But that just means that the law abiding citizens are the ones who become defenseless.. I've sarcastically argued numerous times that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were fake news, and the people were just made up, after all, such firearms are actually banned there, so such an event isn't actually possible to happen, those weapons are banned.. It gets even better when looking at countries like Mexico, S. America etc, where the police may actually be part of the mob, flip a coin as to whether you'll survive if you call for help (I suppose if your passport is blue or from the euro block they probably try to take care of you for tourism sake).. In any case, I think a recent episode of econtalk with Jonah Goldberg http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2018/04/jonah_goldberg.html http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2018/04/jonah_goldberg.html summed up a lot of truths about the place we are at in our society, especially in the U.S.. It's quite worth a listen.. Because ultimately, though the above is bad, we often forget that gives have historically persecuted people far worse, and though it's 2018 (as if somehow that means something), it's still happening ( IRS/FBI)etc.. Ultimately, These are problems govt cannot solve, and the answer the govt will give might not be an answer that's good, for average Joe at least.. But I do think, in the U.S., It's a road we are heading down..

Aaargh20318 8y ago

This is an interesting article from the point of view of someone living in Europe. She moves away from the US because she wants out of the rat race: > "I grew up believing that having money was an objective to strive for and that life was a ruthless competition. I worked hard in school and got a good job because that was what was expected of me. That was the path that was supposed to bring me happiness, except I followed that path, and I wasn’t happy." Finally, she ends up living in Europe: > "I certainly could say more about the work-life balance provided by the 35-hour workweek, the five weeks of paid vacation I enjoy each year, the two years paid unemployment benefits I would receive should I lose my job, my access to free health care, paid maternity leave, affordable child care, free education from age 3 through to university or the state-provided retirement pension I will receive at age 65." The funny thing is, that as someone who grew up in Europe, with all those things she raves about, I feel exactly like she did in the beginning of the story. I feel like being in the rat race just like she did. Those 5 weeks of paid vacation feel more like an insult than a benefit. You get to taste a little bit of freedom for a short while and then it's back to dayprison. Retirement at 65 is a pipe dream, the boomers spent all the retirement money already and retirement age is slowly rising (currently at 67), by the time I turn 67 in 30 years I'm sure it has been raised even further or more likely there won't be any kind of state pension anymore. Not that I expect to ever get that old. 8 hour workdays are insane, it's an arbitrary number and yet the whole of society is based around it. It leaves people too exhausted to enjoy life and causes so much stress I'm actually surprised anyone makes it to pension age. I fully expect to die of a stress-related heart attack or similar way before I get to enjoy any kind of pension.

fwdpropaganda 8y ago
> The funny thing is, that as someone who grew up in Europe, with all those things she raves about, I feel exactly like she did in the beginning of the story. We always want more and better, right? We might be different from the Americans in the details (albeit important ones), but we aren't that different in the big picture worldview.
candiodari 8y ago
Ever notice how retirement age is rising at roughly 0.5/years/year ? That means, of course, that by the time someone in their 30s retires it will have moved again. So if politicians want to keep spending like they do now (assuming deficits do not matter and do not raise spending further due to interest), a 30 year old person will retire at age 104 at this rate.

grosjona 8y ago

I wonder if that photo at the top was taken in Guadeloupe? The vibrant green color of the plants and trees seems to indicate this.

JeanMarcS 8y ago
Probably. I asked myself the same question, as this is where I live at the moment. So if not Guadeloupe, it surely is somewhere in the Caribbean

knolan 8y ago

As a European looking out the US is often befuddling. The insanity of healthcare, attitude to firearms, extreme media bias and seemingly unquestioning nationalism are worrisome to say the least. I’ve been there several times for conferences and I’ve always been happy to leave. The constant feeling of being bleed for cash at every opportunity coupled with the fake over sincerity is frustrating. As an Irishman there is a strong connection between our countries and many colleagues have made the move and seem happy. I can’t imagine wanting to live there, at least in the world described in the article and around big city conference centers. Also the chocolate is atrocious.

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throwaway84742 8y ago

Choice is still a thing. If you want all those government benefits in exchange for making 1/3rd of what one makes in the US, go right ahead. Their immigration laws are quite a bit more restrictive than ours, so it won’t be easy, but it can be done. There are literally hundreds of millions of people who would like to move here. Tens of millions in South America alone, in spite of long vacations, “free” healthcare, and “pensions”.

fwdpropaganda 8y ago
> If you want all those government benefits in exchange for making 1/3rd of what one makes in the US, go right ahead. Over here we don't consider that healthcare and education are a "government benefit". We consider them rights. But you sound slightly offended. Like now you're trying to prove that some people like the USA. You don't have to prove anything dude.
- throwaway84742 8y ago
  Rights for which the government taxes you through the nose. Thanks, I’d rather pay my “expensive” private insurance while I rake in a ton more cash. Commies, smh
  - leadingthenet 8y ago
    I can’t believe a comment which literally calls Europeans commies is this highly upvoted on HN. That’s why I’m smh.
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    - holydude 8y ago
      European mentality is really a lax commie mentality masquarading as good left wingy social democracy when in fact it is not. They just want to do capitalism somewhere else and reap the benefits to save face and pretend they are somewhat better than the capitalist nations in the north america and asia.

holydude 8y ago

I have just sold my 1m$ property to move from Europe to the US. Seriously Europe is a fucked up place and I aint coming back.

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kapauldo 8y ago

With culture and social policy, there's no question that the u.s. is irrational. But it's still the land of opportunity and produces most of the innovation in the world. I just wish it wasn't so religious in its thinking a jug hm control and health care, etc.

Alkatori 8y ago

Confused, her information is wrong. I was talking with a French gun owner who owned an AK and AR-15 both chambered in .222 Remington. Just because she doesn't know any gun owners who have them doesn't mean "military style weapons" are banned there.

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dang 8y ago

All: the flamewars that raged in this thread are bannable offenses on HN. It's no excuse that the article was bait; the thing to do was to flag it and move on, as others fortunately did. We're not going to let HN go down in the flames and fumes of nationalistic battles. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't do that. Do this instead: when someone provokes you with an egregious comment, flag it (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html) and/or email us at hn@ycombinator.com to be sure to get moderator attention. Don't reply, and especially don't reply aggressively. In other words, call the fire department, don't pour fuel, and don't start fires of your own. Sounds easy, but it's not, because it requires tolerating the burn of annoyance inside oneself instead of taking it out on the commons. That's actually what tolerance means. It's a physical process, just like any structure can tolerate a certain load before snapping. Containing this energy does not feel good, but it's the capacity we all need to build if if we want this community to survive as a place for curiosity.