4 ms·

AFAICT it's illegal for ICE to incorrectly decide you are not a US citizen. If they made a mistake in their determination then they have violated the law. So ci

AFAICT it's illegal for ICE to incorrectly decide you are not a US citizen. If they made a mistake in their determination then they have violated the law. So citizens don't have a right to a lawyer because immigration law doesn't apply to US citizens. But if ICE is wrong they should get sued to hell and back and this penalty seems horrifying low for 3.5 years of wrongful imprisonment.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
hedora 8y ago
If you read to the end, you’ll see the government didn’t let him keep the settlement, since they only give you two years from the date of the arrest to sue, which he couldn’t do, since he was still in custody. I’d expect minimum statutory damages for this sort of thing to be north of $10K / day, paid up front, and garnished from ICE’s payroll budget. However, I don’t make the rules.
- throwawaylalala 8y ago
  I’d then sue them for illegal detainment for every day illegally detained....
  - candiodari 8y ago
    Ok ... that sounds so cool. You would fail. You see, there is a slight problem. The government has legislated that this does not happen. And it doesn't happen. The only thing that can happen is that government employees do something they did not have the legal right to do, by abusing state power (unknown to them). For this they are ... personally liable. Gotta love what happens when you give people the authority to make the rules, don't you ? Such reasonable rules ... So a judge has 2 choices (in most states): Either he ignores you or gives you some token amount without making a big fuss out of it, for some bullshit reason (not for illegally detaining you, but for some bullshit but legal reason like illegally charging you some fee or something). The other choice a judge has is to hold the people who actually did this personally liable ... and assigns real monetary damages. Not on the government, as the government explicitly forbade them from doing this, on the individuals. This will open those individuals to a slam-shut kidnapping case, which if the victim plays it correctly will lead to them receiving prison sentences. They cannot claim they didn't do it, because it's part of another court case's conclusion that they did it, including that it was illegal. So a judge can either almost ignore you, or utterly destroy the lives of some 20 government employees that just did what they were told to do. At this point, you have to understand, those government employees' lives are utterly destroyed: they are very likely to go to jail, they'll have 6 or 7 figures in debt (enough to almost certainly lose all their possessions), garnished wages for a decade at least and can never work for government again (in other words, on top of everything else, they're fired from their job). A reasonable person would say that a judge needs a third option: a way to tell the government that they fucked up lawmaking, assign damages based on that, and that laws need to come with clear details on what to do. That a rule like "no citizen may be arrested" must come with a clear and foolproof way to distinguish citizens from non-citizens to be valid, but judges are explicitly forbidden from doing this (you might even say the very definition of their job is to NEVER do this). Why are the rules like this ? Government, the big exception to employer responsibility ? To save the government a buck. Needless to say, unless there was a daily rape regimen, a judge will not do this. Frankly, even then it's probably not a reasonable thing to do.
- candiodari 8y ago
  > I’d expect minimum statutory damages for this sort of thing to be north of $10K / day, paid up front, and garnished from ICE’s payroll budget. However, I don’t make the rules. Heh. It's funny what people think about government sometimes. This is nothing. Read about what the IRS can legally do to you, without any recourse, or just search for horror stories on the internet, as they actually do those things regularly. Blocking all your bank accounts, then convicting you based on non-payment is normal for them. That's one of the problems of people in general. If you give people essentially unlimited power (that's what Congress has, in theory), they're not going to be nice about using that power. That means that government departments that see it as their mission to fix things in society, immigration, mental health, child support, veteran's affairs, ... well, frankly it is pretty well known among lawyers that things like constant human rights violations, outright criminal direct abuse (rape, beatings, ...), absurd imprisonment (e.g. solitary confinement for long periods), they're part of normal operation for a lot of these departments. For instance, did you know the odds of a kid getting raped or sexually assaulted are actually higher in the care of CPA than with abusive parents ? Despite, of course, that the whole point of CPA is to lower these occurrences ? The same goes with metal-health related suicides: they're actually higher when patients are "being treated" in mental health hospitals that without any care (which means, no forced care). People just seem utterly unable to admit or believe that attempts to fix things are making matters worse, so these things just do not get resolved.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

hedora 8y ago

If you read to the end, you’ll see the government didn’t let him keep the settlement, since they only give you two years from the date of the arrest to sue, which he couldn’t do, since he was still in custody. I’d expect minimum statutory damages for this sort of thing to be north of $10K / day, paid up front, and garnished from ICE’s payroll budget. However, I don’t make the rules.

throwawaylalala 8y ago
I’d then sue them for illegal detainment for every day illegally detained....
- candiodari 8y ago
  Ok ... that sounds so cool. You would fail. You see, there is a slight problem. The government has legislated that this does not happen. And it doesn't happen. The only thing that can happen is that government employees do something they did not have the legal right to do, by abusing state power (unknown to them). For this they are ... personally liable. Gotta love what happens when you give people the authority to make the rules, don't you ? Such reasonable rules ... So a judge has 2 choices (in most states): Either he ignores you or gives you some token amount without making a big fuss out of it, for some bullshit reason (not for illegally detaining you, but for some bullshit but legal reason like illegally charging you some fee or something). The other choice a judge has is to hold the people who actually did this personally liable ... and assigns real monetary damages. Not on the government, as the government explicitly forbade them from doing this, on the individuals. This will open those individuals to a slam-shut kidnapping case, which if the victim plays it correctly will lead to them receiving prison sentences. They cannot claim they didn't do it, because it's part of another court case's conclusion that they did it, including that it was illegal. So a judge can either almost ignore you, or utterly destroy the lives of some 20 government employees that just did what they were told to do. At this point, you have to understand, those government employees' lives are utterly destroyed: they are very likely to go to jail, they'll have 6 or 7 figures in debt (enough to almost certainly lose all their possessions), garnished wages for a decade at least and can never work for government again (in other words, on top of everything else, they're fired from their job). A reasonable person would say that a judge needs a third option: a way to tell the government that they fucked up lawmaking, assign damages based on that, and that laws need to come with clear details on what to do. That a rule like "no citizen may be arrested" must come with a clear and foolproof way to distinguish citizens from non-citizens to be valid, but judges are explicitly forbidden from doing this (you might even say the very definition of their job is to NEVER do this). Why are the rules like this ? Government, the big exception to employer responsibility ? To save the government a buck. Needless to say, unless there was a daily rape regimen, a judge will not do this. Frankly, even then it's probably not a reasonable thing to do.
candiodari 8y ago
> I’d expect minimum statutory damages for this sort of thing to be north of $10K / day, paid up front, and garnished from ICE’s payroll budget. However, I don’t make the rules. Heh. It's funny what people think about government sometimes. This is nothing. Read about what the IRS can legally do to you, without any recourse, or just search for horror stories on the internet, as they actually do those things regularly. Blocking all your bank accounts, then convicting you based on non-payment is normal for them. That's one of the problems of people in general. If you give people essentially unlimited power (that's what Congress has, in theory), they're not going to be nice about using that power. That means that government departments that see it as their mission to fix things in society, immigration, mental health, child support, veteran's affairs, ... well, frankly it is pretty well known among lawyers that things like constant human rights violations, outright criminal direct abuse (rape, beatings, ...), absurd imprisonment (e.g. solitary confinement for long periods), they're part of normal operation for a lot of these departments. For instance, did you know the odds of a kid getting raped or sexually assaulted are actually higher in the care of CPA than with abusive parents ? Despite, of course, that the whole point of CPA is to lower these occurrences ? The same goes with metal-health related suicides: they're actually higher when patients are "being treated" in mental health hospitals that without any care (which means, no forced care). People just seem utterly unable to admit or believe that attempts to fix things are making matters worse, so these things just do not get resolved.