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So take one random sample from one of your 86 "hands-on IT projects", and you're trying to tell me that you learned all the things that you would need to learn

by ssharp 18y ago

So take one random sample from one of your 86 "hands-on IT projects", and you're trying to tell me that you learned all the things that you would need to learn in a full-time 2 year MBA program? I just don't see how that is remotely possible. If you're just talking about random learning, then your statement doesn't really reply. I could spend two years reading Wikipedia and learn a lot more than I could in two years of full-time MBA study -- the problem is the quality not the quantity. Besides, a lot of the value of the MBA doesn't come directly from the curriculum but rather having in-depth case analysis with your professor and the other students. I find it pretty interesting that a lot of the values of the MBA and the decisions for firms to hire MBAs parallel a lot with how YC operates, yet YC is viewed as the holy entity and MBAs are viewed as hell spawns. The bulk of the value of YC doesn't come from the investment, it comes from the community, much like an MBA. The curriculum doesn't vary that much between a top school like Wharton or Chicago and your standard state school. The difference is the quality of the other students. And much like YC, firms hire MBAs on their abilities to learn and not what they've already learned. Don't get me wrong, the curriculum is very important and gives a very good general overview of every major operation in a corporation (operations, accounting, finance, marketing, IS, etc), but honestly, you COULD learn it all on your own. But that applies to just about anything. I could learn all the curriculum I would need for a CS PhD on my own if I wanted to as well...

edw519 18y ago
"all the things that you would need to learn in a full-time 2 year MBA program" I can't think of a single thing that would be on that list. Business School is not like Law School or Medical School where you must remember the "things" you learned. Employers use the MBA to differentiate candidates. It's unlikely that you'll use all that much from the curriculum on your first job. You even say so yourself, "firms hire MBAs on their abilities to learn and not what they've already learned". "I just don't see how that is remotely possible." How could you if you've never done it? Every large project I've ever worked on had issues with interpersonal communication, project management, logistics, deployment, revenue generation, and profitability (you know, all the important stuff), in a manner that business school can't even imagine covering. "the problem is the quality not the quantity" Exactly. That's my whole point. The quality of a hands on business education blows away anything academic. I imagine most business people (with MBAs or not) would heartily concur. The only thing I remember from business school was, "A degree in business is a degree in nothing." "in-depth case analysis" Case studies are notoriously poor for learning about business. What good is it to study business decisions after the fact, when you already know what they didn't? Marc Andressson said as much in his talk at Startup School here: http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/98124/Marc_Andreessen_Founder_Ning_Opsware_N http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/98124/Marc_Andreessen_Founder_... or here: http://omnisio.com/startupschool08/marc-andreessen-at-startup-school-08 http://omnisio.com/startupschool08/marc-andreessen-at-startu... If you don't want to listen to me, perhaps he's a little more convincing. (Whether you agree with me about anything or not, I strongly suggest this video. A lot to learn from someone with real battle scars.) "with your professor and the other students" who pale in comparison to people your encounter every day on the job. Why do you think the most important class in any business school is the internship?
- ssharp 18y ago
  You makes some decent points but you continue to say things that are a bit ridiculous such as: "who pale in comparison to people your encounter every day on the job. Why do you think the most important class in any business school is the internship?". Where do you work that you get to spend each day with the best and brightest business leaders in the world? There are reasons why top management consulting firms aggressively recruit MBAs from top-tier business schools and a lot of it has to do with the people that they were surrounded with in their education. I'm not going to discount your opinions or Marc Andreesen's opinions but they are just two opinions. I'm sure I could go talk to any partner at Accenture and get a vastly different opinion. I don't really think that the MBA makes that much sense for someone interested in starting their own web company but for many career paths it does.
  - edw519 18y ago
    "Where do you work that you get to spend each day with the best and brightest business leaders in the world?" I don't. I just believe that we all have a lot to learn from all the ordinary people running the world, a little bit at a time. I imagine the best and brightest business leaders in the world would agree with me. "I'm sure I could go talk to any partner at Accenture and get a vastly different opinion" Yes you will! But don't forget to talk to a few of the many business people who despise firms like Accenture. I know they're out there because they're the ones who call people like me (and many others here) to clean up the messes MBAs leave behind. "I don't really think that the MBA makes that much sense for someone interested in starting their own web company but for many career paths it does." Yes, I agree.

by ssharp 18y ago

edw519 18y ago

"all the things that you would need to learn in a full-time 2 year MBA program" I can't think of a single thing that would be on that list. Business School is not like Law School or Medical School where you must remember the "things" you learned. Employers use the MBA to differentiate candidates. It's unlikely that you'll use all that much from the curriculum on your first job. You even say so yourself, "firms hire MBAs on their abilities to learn and not what they've already learned". "I just don't see how that is remotely possible." How could you if you've never done it? Every large project I've ever worked on had issues with interpersonal communication, project management, logistics, deployment, revenue generation, and profitability (you know, all the important stuff), in a manner that business school can't even imagine covering. "the problem is the quality not the quantity" Exactly. That's my whole point. The quality of a hands on business education blows away anything academic. I imagine most business people (with MBAs or not) would heartily concur. The only thing I remember from business school was, "A degree in business is a degree in nothing." "in-depth case analysis" Case studies are notoriously poor for learning about business. What good is it to study business decisions after the fact, when you already know what they didn't? Marc Andressson said as much in his talk at Startup School here: http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/98124/Marc_Andreessen_Founder_Ning_Opsware_N http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/98124/Marc_Andreessen_Founder_... or here: http://omnisio.com/startupschool08/marc-andreessen-at-startup-school-08 http://omnisio.com/startupschool08/marc-andreessen-at-startu... If you don't want to listen to me, perhaps he's a little more convincing. (Whether you agree with me about anything or not, I strongly suggest this video. A lot to learn from someone with real battle scars.) "with your professor and the other students" who pale in comparison to people your encounter every day on the job. Why do you think the most important class in any business school is the internship?

ssharp 18y ago
You makes some decent points but you continue to say things that are a bit ridiculous such as: "who pale in comparison to people your encounter every day on the job. Why do you think the most important class in any business school is the internship?". Where do you work that you get to spend each day with the best and brightest business leaders in the world? There are reasons why top management consulting firms aggressively recruit MBAs from top-tier business schools and a lot of it has to do with the people that they were surrounded with in their education. I'm not going to discount your opinions or Marc Andreesen's opinions but they are just two opinions. I'm sure I could go talk to any partner at Accenture and get a vastly different opinion. I don't really think that the MBA makes that much sense for someone interested in starting their own web company but for many career paths it does.
- edw519 18y ago
  "Where do you work that you get to spend each day with the best and brightest business leaders in the world?" I don't. I just believe that we all have a lot to learn from all the ordinary people running the world, a little bit at a time. I imagine the best and brightest business leaders in the world would agree with me. "I'm sure I could go talk to any partner at Accenture and get a vastly different opinion" Yes you will! But don't forget to talk to a few of the many business people who despise firms like Accenture. I know they're out there because they're the ones who call people like me (and many others here) to clean up the messes MBAs leave behind. "I don't really think that the MBA makes that much sense for someone interested in starting their own web company but for many career paths it does." Yes, I agree.