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One mystery that continues to fascinate me is when people at work say things to me that are obviously irrational -- are they sincere or is it some kind of manip

One mystery that continues to fascinate me is when people at work say things to me that are obviously irrational -- are they sincere or is it some kind of manipulative power play? I've had managers ask me things such as "When will the rebuild of the website be done" and I answer "In two months" and they say "You have two weeks" and I say "Maybe 6 weeks, but not 2" and then they repeat "You've got two weeks." I wonder if they realize they sound crazy? I can imagine a few possibilities: 1.) Possibly they feel that they won a concession by getting me to shift from "two months" to "maybe 6 weeks" and they think they will get more concessions from me if they just keep pretending that two weeks is the only allowed answered? 2.) Is it a threat? What are they are going to do when we miss the obviously impossible deadline? 3.) Are they pretending to be serious about two weeks, or do they really think it is possible? Perhaps they are paranoid and they think that every worker is lying to them all the time? I run into deeply irrational behavior at work all the time. I find the amount of it to be surprising. I was thinking about this when I wrote "The accusation that you are irrational -- is it the truth, or a manipulative power play" but there I focused on personal situations, and I mostly leave is as an exercise to the reader to imagine how it extends to work situations. http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/the-accusation-that-youre-irrational-truth-or-manipulative-power-play http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/the-accusation-that-y...

netsharc 9y ago
Since I have no fears of getting fired I would respond "2 weeks? Then you'll get a very broken website.". If they ask "Are you being sarcastic?" I would respond "Are you?".
chmod775 9y ago
The obvious answer is "well good luck doing it on your own in two weeks", then quitting as asap. I wouldn't work at a place where the person tasked with supervising and organizing my work is clearly incapable of doing so and also rude. Edit: Unless you have recourse with higher ups - in that case try talking to his superiors.
jlebrech 9y ago
do it in 14 business days.
- dymk 9y ago
  That's still less than 3 weeks, not like he's really won, and now he looks like he's conceded and still got the project done "late".
- chipperyman573 9y ago
  That's still less than 3 weeks, and also doesn't make any sense (there's 5 business days in a week, and unless specified it doesn't make sense to change units)
Impossible 9y ago
I always assume these type of "threats" are heavy handed suggestions for unpaid overtime. If you're telling him 2 months, and you assume a 40 hour work week, maybe he expects you'll work 120 weeks and get it done roughly on time? Its also possible that the manager has no idea what the scope of work is, has a different view of the scope of work is than you do, or in extreme\hostile situations thinks you're taking advantage and being lazy ("if only my reports would work harder!"), which also sounds like wanting forced unpaid overtime unless your productivity is unusually low.
icebraining 9y ago
By answering "Maybe 6 weeks", you just validated their belief that the full project deadline is negotiable, and so now they're just bargaining from a position of power.
- rlayton2 9y ago
  This is the correct answer. When making a concession like this, always take something away. "We can do the website in 6 weeks, but we will have to remove the ability for users to upvote". If that doesn't sit well, send a list of the features, along with their timeframes and ask them to choose which features to cut. You still get the irrational answers back though unfortunately, but it is a more balanced position.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  Indeed. 8 weeks that in an informal conversation was cut by 25% communicates that you really didn't know how long it would take. 8 could mean 6, or 10, or 2.
thomasz 9y ago
They want to pressure you to cut corners, or work crazy hours, without directly ordering you to do so.
raarts 9y ago
> you've got two weeks It happens in movies and it always works.
csomar 9y ago
I'd leave that toxic workplace as soon as I find a better option with the minimum pay I need. A dog is very friendly to everyone. But some street dogs are dangerous. It is not their fault. They have been abused and exposed to harassment when they were young. They think all humans are dangerous, so they'll bite anyone that approaches them. The same is happening for your boss. He had a bad relation with developers (or employees) and then his subconscious is generalizing it over every other person. So he thinks that any employee is a lying prick piece of shit. And that the only way to get you to work is to dominate you. Because that's how things work in his mind. Needless to say, the best course of action is to leave to a saner workplace.
- zrobotics 9y ago
  Slightly off topic, but a dog's default state is not friendly to everyone, harrasment/abuse is certainly not required for an unfamiliar dog to be unfriendly. It has taken a lot of work to domesticated them, but many dogs are only friendly towards humans through exposure and positive reinforcement.
  - csomar 9y ago
    by everyone I meant human. Yes, dogs for example are allergic to cats.
extrapickles 9y ago
If you get in these conversations, when they say "You have 2 weeks", I found it to be best to shift the conversation to cutting scope rather than giving out shorter estimates. Its also helpful to get an answer to why they need it in 2 weeks, so you can say "I can get Y done in 2 weeks, which is the part you need for demo Z".
dane-pgp 9y ago
I imagine that such managers feel helpless, placed between the people "below" them actually doing the work and the people "above" them that are the ones imposing the broader but equally impossible deadlines for the business. (To be slightly less sympathetic, a manager might feel that their own pay/prospects will improve if they can produce results faster than rationally expected). In order to maintain a feeling of control, or of providing value, the manager falls into the mindset that the one input they have into the process is that they nominally get to set deadlines (for each task of a given scope and level of quality), even if those deadlines are repeatedly missed. The temptation is that they think that the shorter the deadline, the faster the development and the better the result.
notabee 9y ago
I think it's safe to assume power play in most such instances, though the perpetrators may have little more self-awareness than a dog does when it pee-claims things. People who grow up in authoritarian households tend to just repeat that behavior, as obedience is valued more highly than correctness. They care about you doing what they say, full stop.

netsharc 9y ago

Since I have no fears of getting fired I would respond "2 weeks? Then you'll get a very broken website.". If they ask "Are you being sarcastic?" I would respond "Are you?".

chmod775 9y ago

The obvious answer is "well good luck doing it on your own in two weeks", then quitting as asap. I wouldn't work at a place where the person tasked with supervising and organizing my work is clearly incapable of doing so and also rude. Edit: Unless you have recourse with higher ups - in that case try talking to his superiors.

jlebrech 9y ago

do it in 14 business days.

dymk 9y ago
That's still less than 3 weeks, not like he's really won, and now he looks like he's conceded and still got the project done "late".
chipperyman573 9y ago
That's still less than 3 weeks, and also doesn't make any sense (there's 5 business days in a week, and unless specified it doesn't make sense to change units)

Impossible 9y ago

I always assume these type of "threats" are heavy handed suggestions for unpaid overtime. If you're telling him 2 months, and you assume a 40 hour work week, maybe he expects you'll work 120 weeks and get it done roughly on time? Its also possible that the manager has no idea what the scope of work is, has a different view of the scope of work is than you do, or in extreme\hostile situations thinks you're taking advantage and being lazy ("if only my reports would work harder!"), which also sounds like wanting forced unpaid overtime unless your productivity is unusually low.

icebraining 9y ago

By answering "Maybe 6 weeks", you just validated their belief that the full project deadline is negotiable, and so now they're just bargaining from a position of power.

rlayton2 9y ago
This is the correct answer. When making a concession like this, always take something away. "We can do the website in 6 weeks, but we will have to remove the ability for users to upvote". If that doesn't sit well, send a list of the features, along with their timeframes and ask them to choose which features to cut. You still get the irrational answers back though unfortunately, but it is a more balanced position.
bdcravens 9y ago
Indeed. 8 weeks that in an informal conversation was cut by 25% communicates that you really didn't know how long it would take. 8 could mean 6, or 10, or 2.

thomasz 9y ago

They want to pressure you to cut corners, or work crazy hours, without directly ordering you to do so.

raarts 9y ago

> you've got two weeks It happens in movies and it always works.

csomar 9y ago

I'd leave that toxic workplace as soon as I find a better option with the minimum pay I need. A dog is very friendly to everyone. But some street dogs are dangerous. It is not their fault. They have been abused and exposed to harassment when they were young. They think all humans are dangerous, so they'll bite anyone that approaches them. The same is happening for your boss. He had a bad relation with developers (or employees) and then his subconscious is generalizing it over every other person. So he thinks that any employee is a lying prick piece of shit. And that the only way to get you to work is to dominate you. Because that's how things work in his mind. Needless to say, the best course of action is to leave to a saner workplace.

zrobotics 9y ago
Slightly off topic, but a dog's default state is not friendly to everyone, harrasment/abuse is certainly not required for an unfamiliar dog to be unfriendly. It has taken a lot of work to domesticated them, but many dogs are only friendly towards humans through exposure and positive reinforcement.
- csomar 9y ago
  by everyone I meant human. Yes, dogs for example are allergic to cats.

extrapickles 9y ago

If you get in these conversations, when they say "You have 2 weeks", I found it to be best to shift the conversation to cutting scope rather than giving out shorter estimates. Its also helpful to get an answer to why they need it in 2 weeks, so you can say "I can get Y done in 2 weeks, which is the part you need for demo Z".

dane-pgp 9y ago

I imagine that such managers feel helpless, placed between the people "below" them actually doing the work and the people "above" them that are the ones imposing the broader but equally impossible deadlines for the business. (To be slightly less sympathetic, a manager might feel that their own pay/prospects will improve if they can produce results faster than rationally expected). In order to maintain a feeling of control, or of providing value, the manager falls into the mindset that the one input they have into the process is that they nominally get to set deadlines (for each task of a given scope and level of quality), even if those deadlines are repeatedly missed. The temptation is that they think that the shorter the deadline, the faster the development and the better the result.

notabee 9y ago

I think it's safe to assume power play in most such instances, though the perpetrators may have little more self-awareness than a dog does when it pee-claims things. People who grow up in authoritarian households tend to just repeat that behavior, as obedience is valued more highly than correctness. They care about you doing what they say, full stop.