5 ms·

Gruber on the Macbook Pro Keyboard

81 points by nikon 8y ago

sp332 8y ago
Please link to the original article. https://theoutline.com/post/4277/dont-buy-the-new-macbook-pros-even-on-sale-in-my-opinion https://theoutline.com/post/4277/dont-buy-the-new-macbook-pr... Linking to Gruber instead caused a bunch of confusion last time. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15499536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15499536
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  I think it's nortable and worth linking to the Gruber article, because he's usually a reliable apologist for any Apple screwups. When even he's saying it's bad, it's real fuckin' bad.
yarrel 8y ago
Wow it must be bad.
faramarz 8y ago
I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013) and the 'E' key has stopped functioning altogether. I've been quoted between 15-250 to replace the keyboard. I haven't been able to leave the notebook at a shop yet but my workaround is to use it stationed connected to a Bluetooth keyboard. I wonder if this issue is common with my model as well (not the butterfly mechanics i beleive)
- oneeyedpigeon 8y ago
  I have the 13" from mid 2014. After only about a year, one of the cursor keys developed a split, then broke. Now I have an area on the left side of the keyboard causing various keys to fail occasionally — the '2' in particular, the 'a' now also. These issues are insignificant compared to the problems I've had with the screen coating; my first Mac laptop has been a pretty disappointing experience overall.
- micv 8y ago
  I have the same MBP and the keyboard is still working great despite my taking exceptionally poor care of it (multiple drink spills). I've not heard any buzz about HW failure rates with that model so I think you might just be unlucky.
lynndylanhurley 8y ago
I had to use my old 2012 MBP the other day after using the 2016 MBP since it was released, and the 2012 keyboard was a stunning improvement over the 2016. Which is strange because I never thought the 2012 keyboard was exceptional. Do any of you prefer the new keyboard?
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  > Do any of you prefer the new keyboard? I actually love the way it _feels_. If they could get the same feel with normal reliability, it'd be the best keyboard ever IMO. But no key feel, no matter how good, is worth this ludicrous failure rate.
- danieldk 8y ago
  I like the new keyboard, they keys feel more stable and I can generally type faster due to less travel. However, the problems are real. My ‘t’ key gets stuck regularly. Some other keys have had problems as well. And I rarely use the keyboard (at work I connect a Microsoft Natural Keyboard). I have also heard that colleagues have stuck keys. I think it is absolutely inexcusable for a laptop that was 1699 Euro new. I have been a Mac user for 10 years. But Apple’s inability and unwillingness to address the problem leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am now also unlikely to recommend MacBooks until they fix this issue.
  - dzhiurgis 8y ago
    I do like the new keyboard too, but I think older was waaay more accurate. Mine got replaced after one year use (and I got AppleCare immediately after that). Unfortunately after less than a month keys started to get stuck again and I do keep quite good hygiene around my computer.
hexsprite 8y ago
It happened to me. They had to replace the whole top case under warranty because a crumb got into the keyboard. And since I got it back I have been pretty careful but still it seems like one of the keys is starting to go. Thank goodness for AppleCare. Hope Apple fixes this in the next release.
- shabble 8y ago
  As long as it's covered, I'd hope everyone is bringing them in for servicing and repair as often as necessary, since that seems like the only way they'll take any action, if it costs them enough in support and refurb costs. Public outcry is nice, but unless it's actually stopping people buying them, I'm not sure it helps.
haubey 8y ago
One of my shift keys doesn't work reliably. I'm just waiting for the day when the other key and the caps lock also go dark and I won't be able to log in to my computer.
notadoc 8y ago
You know the MacBook Pro situation is bad when even the biggest cheerleaders of all-things-Apple say it's bad. The now three year old 2015 model remains the best Mac laptop available, it's an upgrade in every way; a wonderful working keyboard, a hardware escape key, hardware function keys, no annoying Touch Bar, ports, MagSafe, no dongles needed, did I mention ports? I genuinely hope Apple scraps the current models entirely and starts anew with the MacBook Pro, with the professional user actually in mind. They already have two consumer focused laptops, why did they screw up the pro?
- hcurtiss 8y ago
  Agreed. I bought a 2017 and took it back because I vastly preferred my 2015.
- finaliteration 8y ago
  I got a new laptop for work about 2 months ago and opted for the 2015 model MBP (mostly due to “legacy” external devices and not wanting to spend a bunch of money on dongles). After all of these reviews coming out I’m really happy that I did.
  - snuxoll 8y ago
    Same here, bought a Apple refurbished 2015 15” last month - but now I have to worry about the display separation issue instead of the touchbar, keyboard and ports.
solomatov 8y ago
The same stuff happened to me. I had stupidity to try to clean it myself and all this resulted in pricey repair and having to cope with a temporary laptop for a week. My next laptop probably will be Dell. P.S. For now, I use MacBook Pro 2015 but it getting more and more out of date. Especially after release of hex-core processors.
- ajacksified 8y ago
  I thought I was going crazy, or maybe I was just messy or something. I've got a 2017 (maybe 6 months old), and I've lost 'u', 'c', and a couple other keys - they only work if I press down hard. I usually dock it, but it's super frustrating to use it _like a laptop_.
Dunedan 8y ago
Keys stopping to work is one thing, but for me the Touch Bar and the screwed arrow keys are similarly disappointing. Apple should've seen this coming. What were they thinking?
- mFixman 8y ago
  I never understood the hate for the touchbar. I found no decrease in productivity after remapping Escape to Caps Lock, and both the special options for applications and the more granular volume and brightness controls make it more enjoyable than having F-keys.
  - cschep 8y ago
    I find that having to look down at it to hit any of the "buttons" accurately is a huge decrease in productivity. I loved having play/pause right where it goes. Now I have to look at it, hit a button to go to a second level menu, then hit the button. AND it costs more money. That's not good.
  - shabble 8y ago
    If you plan to use capslock for anything else (some people do actually use it as caps-lock, and I have gotten used to it as an alternate Ctrl for Emacs use) it's definitely more of a pain. I've yet to encounter a single good use for the touchbar, even the volume control is annoying to use. Especially since it's essentially impossible to hit without looking since there's no 'key feel', and I keep finding myself triggering touchbar actions because my fingers slightly overshoot the number or backspace key on occasion. It'd be great as an optional addition above the F-keys, or even a little further away since it requires a concerted effort to use anyway. Even the fact that the pretend 'escape' key doesn't properly operate all the way to the end of the bar (such that it might align with the keys below it) suggests it was far more about aesthetics or some weird notion of 'design' than actual usability. Or I'm just not the right sort of Pro.
  - Dunedan 8y ago
    As others already mentioned the biggest pain point with the Touch Bar is, that you can't use it without looking at it. That's a major annoyance, especially if you use the function keys in your daily work. Yet there is still a solution which would probably satisfy most users: A traditional function key row and an additional Touch Bar above.
svdr 8y ago
I have both a MBP and a Macbook, and the Macbook (2016) is even worse. Keys get stuck all the time, I get them lose using compressed air. Apple even has a page on it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 PS: I like the feeling of the MBP keyboard.
- bischofs 8y ago
  > Apple even has a page on it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 If you have to hold your 15" computer like a restaurant menu with one hand and a compressed air tank in the other - it is a very bad design. Jobs would not tolerate this.
  - jonknee 8y ago
    > Jobs would not tolerate this. He's the guy who blamed a customer for holding the iPhone wrong instead of admitting the antenna design was poor, I could definitely see Jobs not accepting that people live with dust.
wintorez 8y ago
I hate to be that guy, but in my opinion, Apple has completely changed direction from the business of building general computers, to the business of building mobile devices. Also, it's a shame that they are sacrificing usability and durability to build the thinnest and lightest eye candy for coffeeshop crowd.
- merb 8y ago
  well I love the thinness of the 2013" pro macbooks (I own one). BUT it already has dust problems. too much dust means this machine gets slow as hell, but since it's accessible to open and to clean it's a no brainer. However the new machines more look like toys, come with a higher price and have no benefits, the thiness is just too much. I mean the 2013" models have no weight compared to other 15" machines and it's already a heating machine. I'm sad that if apple won't make a 360° turn that it was my last macbook pro.
- solomatov 8y ago
  Apple pivoted their business to a business of luxury devices. Great tools isn't a target anymore unfortunately for professionals.
welly 8y ago
I'm struggling a bit on what my next laptop will be. Apple owner since I don't know when, currently on a late 2013 MBP. It's still going but I suspect it doesn't have a vast amount of life left. Every few months I lose another pixel. I certainly wouldn't upgrade to the current range so they're going to have to do something special in the next 12-18 months or I'll be taking an Ubuntu desktop crash course and getting a Lenovo or similar.
- preek 8y ago
  I’m in the same boat and use the same MBP. The MBP is by default already booting into Debian and its so much better than macOS. Every time I go back, it’s a nightmare. My best bet (after looking around a lot) is the newest Lenovo x1 Carbon.
  - rhcom2 8y ago
    Same MBP here too. I recently replaced the hard drive with a SSD and I feel like it's going to last forever (meaning until the screen dies).
  - vldx 8y ago
    Do you miss the macOS shortcuts? I’m in the same boat as you (early 2013) and starting to looking more and more to X1 Carbon. The emacs-like system wide shortcuts is what I’m afraid of missing mostly.
    - preek 8y ago
      hihi, funny that you would mention that you're afraid of the emacs-like shortcuts, because I gave this week a talk called "Play Emacs like an instrument"[1]. Honestly, under Linux, I'm using i3wm[2] as a Window Manager and Emacs (with evil-mode) for mostly everything else. Everything is accessible with shortcuts. I don't miss macOS for those and not for a whole lot of other things. The only thing I haven't found a better (that's subjective, of course) alternative, yet, is HDR photography editing. 1. http://200ok.ch/posts/2018-04-27_Play_Emacs_like_an_Instrument.html http://200ok.ch/posts/2018-04-27_Play_Emacs_like_an_Instrume...
snissn 8y ago
My keys were getting stuck, but spraying a can of compressed air underneath the keys opened them up again
- cdolan 8y ago
  So in addition to a pack of dongles for basic connections, do you carry a can of compressed air in your pack as well? Give me a break, Apple
georgehaake 8y ago
Curious to hear from anyone who has used these directly, not clamshelled for several months or more and have been keyboard issue free.
- whitehouse3 8y ago
  Daily use since July 2017 without issues.
draw_down 8y ago
It's shameful that they're not even acknowledging this problem, that they continue to sell this product. This problem is really widespread and not ok. They need to relax with their drive to make everything thinner and take stock of what they are actually doing.
tankerdude 8y ago
It's miserable, the new keyboard. 30+ years of having the escape key in the upper left hand corner for me, and for them to switch it over to an _offset_ touch escape key has driven me a little insane.
sathomasga 8y ago
Folks may make fun of me, but I'm still pleased as can be with my 2016 MacBook Air. Maxed out on CPU, memory, and disk, it's plenty powerful for front-end development, and since I'm almost always connected to an external monitor, the lack of a Retina display is of little consequence.
- Dunedan 8y ago
  You could've also chosen a non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro 2016/2017: Same weight as the MacBook Air, but smaller size, a Retina display, faster CPU, twice the amount of RAM possible and the option for a larger SSD. Downside is of course that it's more expensive than a MacBook Air.
maurits 8y ago
I absolutely loved my 2011 Air which always was a great combination for me with a linux server for all the heavy lifting. This week I will somewhat begrudgingly swap out the Air for a 2015 15 inch MBP, hoping it will last me long.
linguae 8y ago
I'm wondering if anyone else here thinks that the time is ripe for a competitor to Mac OS X given Apple's missteps regarding the Mac as of late? I'm in the market for a new laptop to replace my dead 2013 MacBook Air, and I'm not pleased with any of Apple's laptop offerings at this time. I've been thinking about buying a ThinkPad 480 or HP EliteBook 830 G5, but this will mean transitioning to Windows 10 or Linux, which are still a step or two down from Mac OS X for me. I wish there were an workstation-focused operating system out there that had the polish of Mac OS X but can run on a wide range of PCs. Since the demise of BeOS there hasn't been any new commercial operating systems for personal computers; it's just Windows, Mac OS X, or commercial Linux distributions. Personally it should be inspired by some of the best ideas of computing, ideas that were ahead of their time back when they first appeared but may be successful today if reimplemented and reintroduced the right way. I'm talking about some of the ideas of Smalltalk that didn't make its way into contemporary GUIs. I'm talking about Lisp machines such as the ones Symbolics made that ran the Genera environment. Take the ideas of such systems, then add something like Apple's OpenDoc to encourage the construction of small, composable GUI tools that developers could write, and then use tried-and-true UI guidelines like those from the Mac OS 8 era, and we would have an operating system that is extensible, has a consistent user interface conforming to tried-and-true guidelines, and supports programmable GUI workflows while also supporting the command line via some sort of REPL.
- scroot 8y ago
  I feel you man. There is a guy working on his own "open source" laptop, and his eventual goal is to have it run lisp all the way down: http://mntmn.com/reform/ http://mntmn.com/reform/
tvmalsv 8y ago
I still keep holding out for the MBP that probably won't appear (with lots of ports and a magsafe charging connection, and while I've never tried the newest keyboard, I love my current one). My current MBP is a mid-2010 (2009? maybe? can't remember), and it still runs great, especially after replacing the HDD with an SSD several years ago. However, El Capitan is the last OSX that will install on it, and this year even the Turbotax software gave me a warning that their software for next year will not run on my system and I'll have to either get a newer one or use their web product.
twodave 8y ago
I got a new, maxed MBP about 4 months ago. I hate the keyboard, and typically hook it up to my DAS Keyboard 4 Professional at work, but when I work from elsewhere I am constantly resting my fingertips on escape and “hey Siri” touch bar buttons, or the point that I’ve developed muscle memory to close Siri whenever I open it by mistake. Worst keyboard layout I’ve ever experienced. Not to mention there’s hardly any feedback in the switches (especially compared to my cherry Browns).

81 points by nikon 8y ago

Please link to the original article. https://theoutline.com/post/4277/dont-buy-the-new-macbook-pros-even-on-sale-in-my-opinion https://theoutline.com/post/4277/dont-buy-the-new-macbook-pr... Linking to Gruber instead caused a bunch of confusion last time. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15499536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15499536

Analemma_ 8y ago
I think it's nortable and worth linking to the Gruber article, because he's usually a reliable apologist for any Apple screwups. When even he's saying it's bad, it's real fuckin' bad.

yarrel 8y ago

Wow it must be bad.

faramarz 8y ago

I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013) and the 'E' key has stopped functioning altogether. I've been quoted between 15-250 to replace the keyboard. I haven't been able to leave the notebook at a shop yet but my workaround is to use it stationed connected to a Bluetooth keyboard. I wonder if this issue is common with my model as well (not the butterfly mechanics i beleive)

oneeyedpigeon 8y ago
I have the 13" from mid 2014. After only about a year, one of the cursor keys developed a split, then broke. Now I have an area on the left side of the keyboard causing various keys to fail occasionally — the '2' in particular, the 'a' now also. These issues are insignificant compared to the problems I've had with the screen coating; my first Mac laptop has been a pretty disappointing experience overall.
micv 8y ago
I have the same MBP and the keyboard is still working great despite my taking exceptionally poor care of it (multiple drink spills). I've not heard any buzz about HW failure rates with that model so I think you might just be unlucky.

lynndylanhurley 8y ago

I had to use my old 2012 MBP the other day after using the 2016 MBP since it was released, and the 2012 keyboard was a stunning improvement over the 2016. Which is strange because I never thought the 2012 keyboard was exceptional. Do any of you prefer the new keyboard?

Analemma_ 8y ago
> Do any of you prefer the new keyboard? I actually love the way it _feels_. If they could get the same feel with normal reliability, it'd be the best keyboard ever IMO. But no key feel, no matter how good, is worth this ludicrous failure rate.
danieldk 8y ago
I like the new keyboard, they keys feel more stable and I can generally type faster due to less travel. However, the problems are real. My ‘t’ key gets stuck regularly. Some other keys have had problems as well. And I rarely use the keyboard (at work I connect a Microsoft Natural Keyboard). I have also heard that colleagues have stuck keys. I think it is absolutely inexcusable for a laptop that was 1699 Euro new. I have been a Mac user for 10 years. But Apple’s inability and unwillingness to address the problem leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am now also unlikely to recommend MacBooks until they fix this issue.
- dzhiurgis 8y ago
  I do like the new keyboard too, but I think older was waaay more accurate. Mine got replaced after one year use (and I got AppleCare immediately after that). Unfortunately after less than a month keys started to get stuck again and I do keep quite good hygiene around my computer.

hexsprite 8y ago

It happened to me. They had to replace the whole top case under warranty because a crumb got into the keyboard. And since I got it back I have been pretty careful but still it seems like one of the keys is starting to go. Thank goodness for AppleCare. Hope Apple fixes this in the next release.

shabble 8y ago
As long as it's covered, I'd hope everyone is bringing them in for servicing and repair as often as necessary, since that seems like the only way they'll take any action, if it costs them enough in support and refurb costs. Public outcry is nice, but unless it's actually stopping people buying them, I'm not sure it helps.

haubey 8y ago

One of my shift keys doesn't work reliably. I'm just waiting for the day when the other key and the caps lock also go dark and I won't be able to log in to my computer.

notadoc 8y ago

You know the MacBook Pro situation is bad when even the biggest cheerleaders of all-things-Apple say it's bad. The now three year old 2015 model remains the best Mac laptop available, it's an upgrade in every way; a wonderful working keyboard, a hardware escape key, hardware function keys, no annoying Touch Bar, ports, MagSafe, no dongles needed, did I mention ports? I genuinely hope Apple scraps the current models entirely and starts anew with the MacBook Pro, with the professional user actually in mind. They already have two consumer focused laptops, why did they screw up the pro?

hcurtiss 8y ago
Agreed. I bought a 2017 and took it back because I vastly preferred my 2015.
finaliteration 8y ago
I got a new laptop for work about 2 months ago and opted for the 2015 model MBP (mostly due to “legacy” external devices and not wanting to spend a bunch of money on dongles). After all of these reviews coming out I’m really happy that I did.
- snuxoll 8y ago
  Same here, bought a Apple refurbished 2015 15” last month - but now I have to worry about the display separation issue instead of the touchbar, keyboard and ports.

solomatov 8y ago

The same stuff happened to me. I had stupidity to try to clean it myself and all this resulted in pricey repair and having to cope with a temporary laptop for a week. My next laptop probably will be Dell. P.S. For now, I use MacBook Pro 2015 but it getting more and more out of date. Especially after release of hex-core processors.

ajacksified 8y ago
I thought I was going crazy, or maybe I was just messy or something. I've got a 2017 (maybe 6 months old), and I've lost 'u', 'c', and a couple other keys - they only work if I press down hard. I usually dock it, but it's super frustrating to use it _like a laptop_.

Dunedan 8y ago

Keys stopping to work is one thing, but for me the Touch Bar and the screwed arrow keys are similarly disappointing. Apple should've seen this coming. What were they thinking?

mFixman 8y ago
I never understood the hate for the touchbar. I found no decrease in productivity after remapping Escape to Caps Lock, and both the special options for applications and the more granular volume and brightness controls make it more enjoyable than having F-keys.
- cschep 8y ago
  I find that having to look down at it to hit any of the "buttons" accurately is a huge decrease in productivity. I loved having play/pause right where it goes. Now I have to look at it, hit a button to go to a second level menu, then hit the button. AND it costs more money. That's not good.
- shabble 8y ago
  If you plan to use capslock for anything else (some people do actually use it as caps-lock, and I have gotten used to it as an alternate Ctrl for Emacs use) it's definitely more of a pain. I've yet to encounter a single good use for the touchbar, even the volume control is annoying to use. Especially since it's essentially impossible to hit without looking since there's no 'key feel', and I keep finding myself triggering touchbar actions because my fingers slightly overshoot the number or backspace key on occasion. It'd be great as an optional addition above the F-keys, or even a little further away since it requires a concerted effort to use anyway. Even the fact that the pretend 'escape' key doesn't properly operate all the way to the end of the bar (such that it might align with the keys below it) suggests it was far more about aesthetics or some weird notion of 'design' than actual usability. Or I'm just not the right sort of Pro.
- Dunedan 8y ago
  As others already mentioned the biggest pain point with the Touch Bar is, that you can't use it without looking at it. That's a major annoyance, especially if you use the function keys in your daily work. Yet there is still a solution which would probably satisfy most users: A traditional function key row and an additional Touch Bar above.

svdr 8y ago

I have both a MBP and a Macbook, and the Macbook (2016) is even worse. Keys get stuck all the time, I get them lose using compressed air. Apple even has a page on it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 PS: I like the feeling of the MBP keyboard.

bischofs 8y ago
> Apple even has a page on it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662 If you have to hold your 15" computer like a restaurant menu with one hand and a compressed air tank in the other - it is a very bad design. Jobs would not tolerate this.
- jonknee 8y ago
  > Jobs would not tolerate this. He's the guy who blamed a customer for holding the iPhone wrong instead of admitting the antenna design was poor, I could definitely see Jobs not accepting that people live with dust.

wintorez 8y ago

I hate to be that guy, but in my opinion, Apple has completely changed direction from the business of building general computers, to the business of building mobile devices. Also, it's a shame that they are sacrificing usability and durability to build the thinnest and lightest eye candy for coffeeshop crowd.

merb 8y ago
well I love the thinness of the 2013" pro macbooks (I own one). BUT it already has dust problems. too much dust means this machine gets slow as hell, but since it's accessible to open and to clean it's a no brainer. However the new machines more look like toys, come with a higher price and have no benefits, the thiness is just too much. I mean the 2013" models have no weight compared to other 15" machines and it's already a heating machine. I'm sad that if apple won't make a 360° turn that it was my last macbook pro.
solomatov 8y ago
Apple pivoted their business to a business of luxury devices. Great tools isn't a target anymore unfortunately for professionals.

welly 8y ago

I'm struggling a bit on what my next laptop will be. Apple owner since I don't know when, currently on a late 2013 MBP. It's still going but I suspect it doesn't have a vast amount of life left. Every few months I lose another pixel. I certainly wouldn't upgrade to the current range so they're going to have to do something special in the next 12-18 months or I'll be taking an Ubuntu desktop crash course and getting a Lenovo or similar.

preek 8y ago
I’m in the same boat and use the same MBP. The MBP is by default already booting into Debian and its so much better than macOS. Every time I go back, it’s a nightmare. My best bet (after looking around a lot) is the newest Lenovo x1 Carbon.
- rhcom2 8y ago
  Same MBP here too. I recently replaced the hard drive with a SSD and I feel like it's going to last forever (meaning until the screen dies).
- vldx 8y ago
  Do you miss the macOS shortcuts? I’m in the same boat as you (early 2013) and starting to looking more and more to X1 Carbon. The emacs-like system wide shortcuts is what I’m afraid of missing mostly.
  - preek 8y ago
    hihi, funny that you would mention that you're afraid of the emacs-like shortcuts, because I gave this week a talk called "Play Emacs like an instrument"[1]. Honestly, under Linux, I'm using i3wm[2] as a Window Manager and Emacs (with evil-mode) for mostly everything else. Everything is accessible with shortcuts. I don't miss macOS for those and not for a whole lot of other things. The only thing I haven't found a better (that's subjective, of course) alternative, yet, is HDR photography editing. 1. http://200ok.ch/posts/2018-04-27_Play_Emacs_like_an_Instrument.html http://200ok.ch/posts/2018-04-27_Play_Emacs_like_an_Instrume...

snissn 8y ago

My keys were getting stuck, but spraying a can of compressed air underneath the keys opened them up again

cdolan 8y ago
So in addition to a pack of dongles for basic connections, do you carry a can of compressed air in your pack as well? Give me a break, Apple

georgehaake 8y ago

Curious to hear from anyone who has used these directly, not clamshelled for several months or more and have been keyboard issue free.

whitehouse3 8y ago
Daily use since July 2017 without issues.

draw_down 8y ago

It's shameful that they're not even acknowledging this problem, that they continue to sell this product. This problem is really widespread and not ok. They need to relax with their drive to make everything thinner and take stock of what they are actually doing.

tankerdude 8y ago

It's miserable, the new keyboard. 30+ years of having the escape key in the upper left hand corner for me, and for them to switch it over to an _offset_ touch escape key has driven me a little insane.

sathomasga 8y ago

Folks may make fun of me, but I'm still pleased as can be with my 2016 MacBook Air. Maxed out on CPU, memory, and disk, it's plenty powerful for front-end development, and since I'm almost always connected to an external monitor, the lack of a Retina display is of little consequence.

Dunedan 8y ago
You could've also chosen a non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro 2016/2017: Same weight as the MacBook Air, but smaller size, a Retina display, faster CPU, twice the amount of RAM possible and the option for a larger SSD. Downside is of course that it's more expensive than a MacBook Air.

maurits 8y ago

I absolutely loved my 2011 Air which always was a great combination for me with a linux server for all the heavy lifting. This week I will somewhat begrudgingly swap out the Air for a 2015 15 inch MBP, hoping it will last me long.

linguae 8y ago

I'm wondering if anyone else here thinks that the time is ripe for a competitor to Mac OS X given Apple's missteps regarding the Mac as of late? I'm in the market for a new laptop to replace my dead 2013 MacBook Air, and I'm not pleased with any of Apple's laptop offerings at this time. I've been thinking about buying a ThinkPad 480 or HP EliteBook 830 G5, but this will mean transitioning to Windows 10 or Linux, which are still a step or two down from Mac OS X for me. I wish there were an workstation-focused operating system out there that had the polish of Mac OS X but can run on a wide range of PCs. Since the demise of BeOS there hasn't been any new commercial operating systems for personal computers; it's just Windows, Mac OS X, or commercial Linux distributions. Personally it should be inspired by some of the best ideas of computing, ideas that were ahead of their time back when they first appeared but may be successful today if reimplemented and reintroduced the right way. I'm talking about some of the ideas of Smalltalk that didn't make its way into contemporary GUIs. I'm talking about Lisp machines such as the ones Symbolics made that ran the Genera environment. Take the ideas of such systems, then add something like Apple's OpenDoc to encourage the construction of small, composable GUI tools that developers could write, and then use tried-and-true UI guidelines like those from the Mac OS 8 era, and we would have an operating system that is extensible, has a consistent user interface conforming to tried-and-true guidelines, and supports programmable GUI workflows while also supporting the command line via some sort of REPL.

scroot 8y ago
I feel you man. There is a guy working on his own "open source" laptop, and his eventual goal is to have it run lisp all the way down: http://mntmn.com/reform/ http://mntmn.com/reform/

tvmalsv 8y ago

I still keep holding out for the MBP that probably won't appear (with lots of ports and a magsafe charging connection, and while I've never tried the newest keyboard, I love my current one). My current MBP is a mid-2010 (2009? maybe? can't remember), and it still runs great, especially after replacing the HDD with an SSD several years ago. However, El Capitan is the last OSX that will install on it, and this year even the Turbotax software gave me a warning that their software for next year will not run on my system and I'll have to either get a newer one or use their web product.

twodave 8y ago

I got a new, maxed MBP about 4 months ago. I hate the keyboard, and typically hook it up to my DAS Keyboard 4 Professional at work, but when I work from elsewhere I am constantly resting my fingertips on escape and “hey Siri” touch bar buttons, or the point that I’ve developed muscle memory to close Siri whenever I open it by mistake. Worst keyboard layout I’ve ever experienced. Not to mention there’s hardly any feedback in the switches (especially compared to my cherry Browns).