3 ms·

The organizers of a free jazz festival don't record your attendance, what you bought, how often you went to the bathroom or who you went with.

jasode 8y ago
That's correct but you're not playing along with the analogy. Analogies are not meant to be exactly the same. The analogy for the jazz festival is that the hungry & thirsty attendees in a "walled-garden" of the park are offered up as so-called "products" to the vendors to be sold food & drink. Hence, "You Are The Product". If we want to dismantle the analogy in the direction of Facebook, we could complain that "Facebook doesn't sell food & drink to the web surfer so I don't see how the jazz festival applies." Well, that's how analogies work. You have to look for the commonalities instead of the differences.
- adamconroy 8y ago
  Analogies are good at explaining difficult to understand concepts but shouldn't be used to arrive at decisions or axioms. Each situation or argument should be evaluated on its own. In other words, whilst the jazz festival and facebook models are analogously similar, just because you accept one as harmless doesn't mean the other isn't harmful.
  - jasode 8y ago
    >, just because you accept one as harmless doesn't mean the other isn't harmful. I never said Facebook isn't harmful. My analogy was not an apologetic defense of Facebook. It's unfortunate that I can't even discuss Facebook in an intellectual and detached manner without first prefacing it with the "Facebook-is-my-enemy" street credentials first.[1][2] I've never had a Facebook account and I never will.[3] My analogy is specifically about "product" being a label that (unintentionally) makes people dumber, not smarter, about the economics of multi-sided markets. I found it fascinating that attendees to music festivals were not hammered with the pejorative label "you are the product" -- even though that's what they were. The analogy points out that to "get something for free" in a multi-sided market, an indirect payment has to be made to make that happen -- and it happens in other businesses besides Facebook. [1] Previously wrote that Facebook is a "devolves into a worthless waste of time": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16360609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16360609 [2] Previously wrote that Facebook drives people apart instead of bringing them together: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15676544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15676544 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14397109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14397109
SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
In Singapore they would. Also, Singapore is crazy. In fact... now that I think about it, that’s a good way to describe the whole place, it’s like if Disney and Facebook made a city/state.
- thedailymail 8y ago
  Or as William Gibson called it, "Disneyland with the Death Penalty." https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/ https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/
  - Gigablah 8y ago
    Ironically another example of the “thought-stopping soundbite”. Also, as someone who actually lives in Singapore, I can tell you for certain that SlowRobotAhead is spouting complete nonsense.
    - SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
      Oh i have no doubt if you live there you forget about each MRT station surrounded by 25 cameras, the 5 police men patrol groups with two carrying full auto MP5s, that it’s in some way OK to require an $80,000 permit just to buy a car, the police that wear body armour in the most seriously controlled country in the world, the complete and utter dependence on the state. I totally get how those things blend in and seem normal at a point, that’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. Don’t get me wrong I was fascinated by SG, but it’s not real. Not real in the same way say NYC or Tokyo are real. It’s beautiful, but it’s the air conditioned city top to bottom inside and out. I’ve spent enough time there and around the world to know what I was looking at. Beautiful though.
      - Gigablah 8y ago
        I don’t see anything in your comment that pertains to “... what you bought, how often you went to the bathroom or who you went with”, so yeah, still spouting nonsense. The police here don’t wear body armor, by the way. Where did you hallucinate that from? $80k permits — have you seen the goddamn traffic in Novena on a weekend? Oh, never mind, you’ve “spent enough time” here. Obviously. Air conditioned city — is that supposed to be a jab? It’s as if you’ve forgotten that we’re right at the equator. Look up a map sometime.

jasode 8y ago

That's correct but you're not playing along with the analogy. Analogies are not meant to be exactly the same. The analogy for the jazz festival is that the hungry & thirsty attendees in a "walled-garden" of the park are offered up as so-called "products" to the vendors to be sold food & drink. Hence, "You Are The Product". If we want to dismantle the analogy in the direction of Facebook, we could complain that "Facebook doesn't sell food & drink to the web surfer so I don't see how the jazz festival applies." Well, that's how analogies work. You have to look for the commonalities instead of the differences.

adamconroy 8y ago
Analogies are good at explaining difficult to understand concepts but shouldn't be used to arrive at decisions or axioms. Each situation or argument should be evaluated on its own. In other words, whilst the jazz festival and facebook models are analogously similar, just because you accept one as harmless doesn't mean the other isn't harmful.
- jasode 8y ago
  >, just because you accept one as harmless doesn't mean the other isn't harmful. I never said Facebook isn't harmful. My analogy was not an apologetic defense of Facebook. It's unfortunate that I can't even discuss Facebook in an intellectual and detached manner without first prefacing it with the "Facebook-is-my-enemy" street credentials first.[1][2] I've never had a Facebook account and I never will.[3] My analogy is specifically about "product" being a label that (unintentionally) makes people dumber, not smarter, about the economics of multi-sided markets. I found it fascinating that attendees to music festivals were not hammered with the pejorative label "you are the product" -- even though that's what they were. The analogy points out that to "get something for free" in a multi-sided market, an indirect payment has to be made to make that happen -- and it happens in other businesses besides Facebook. [1] Previously wrote that Facebook is a "devolves into a worthless waste of time": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16360609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16360609 [2] Previously wrote that Facebook drives people apart instead of bringing them together: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15676544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15676544 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14397109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14397109

SlowRobotAhead 8y ago

In Singapore they would. Also, Singapore is crazy. In fact... now that I think about it, that’s a good way to describe the whole place, it’s like if Disney and Facebook made a city/state.

thedailymail 8y ago
Or as William Gibson called it, "Disneyland with the Death Penalty." https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/ https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/
- Gigablah 8y ago
  Ironically another example of the “thought-stopping soundbite”. Also, as someone who actually lives in Singapore, I can tell you for certain that SlowRobotAhead is spouting complete nonsense.
  - SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
    Oh i have no doubt if you live there you forget about each MRT station surrounded by 25 cameras, the 5 police men patrol groups with two carrying full auto MP5s, that it’s in some way OK to require an $80,000 permit just to buy a car, the police that wear body armour in the most seriously controlled country in the world, the complete and utter dependence on the state. I totally get how those things blend in and seem normal at a point, that’s exactly how it’s supposed to work. Don’t get me wrong I was fascinated by SG, but it’s not real. Not real in the same way say NYC or Tokyo are real. It’s beautiful, but it’s the air conditioned city top to bottom inside and out. I’ve spent enough time there and around the world to know what I was looking at. Beautiful though.
    - Gigablah 8y ago
      I don’t see anything in your comment that pertains to “... what you bought, how often you went to the bathroom or who you went with”, so yeah, still spouting nonsense. The police here don’t wear body armor, by the way. Where did you hallucinate that from? $80k permits — have you seen the goddamn traffic in Novena on a weekend? Oh, never mind, you’ve “spent enough time” here. Obviously. Air conditioned city — is that supposed to be a jab? It’s as if you’ve forgotten that we’re right at the equator. Look up a map sometime.