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> “If you require absolute security, please do not upload your data to GEDmatch. If you have already uploaded it, please delete it,” it continues. While I have

> “If you require absolute security, please do not upload your data to GEDmatch. If you have already uploaded it, please delete it,” it continues. While I have no problem with GEDmatch, this sort of misses the point. Yes, if you're a serial killer and rapist from the 1980s who left behind a trail of DNA evidence, by all means, don't upload your genome. However, what if your cousin uploads his?

ocfx 9y ago
Then you go to jail where you belong if you're a serial killer and/or rapist from the 80s
toomuchtodo 9y ago
You have no recourse then.
- downer68 9y ago
  Or, more to the point, not one single person has any recourse, whether they're an evil serial killer/rapist or not. But, I'm trying to think about a situation where a secret identity might leave behind trace evidence that could be linked to a readily identifiable relative's samples, thus unmasking... say Spiderman. I guess, any situation involving trespassing or physical presence under other circumstances, where a person might leave behind a single hair follicle, including the root of the strand.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Definitely. As the number of sequenced individuals grows, it'll become that much harder to hide from a familial genetic search.
karlkatzke 9y ago
I know that we're pretty pro-privacy around here, but I'm gonna just go ahead and suggest that everyone not rape or kill someone.
- dmm 9y ago
  DNA evidence is often collected from fingerprints and it has been shown in many experiments that people can pick up and deposit DNA from other people. As a result your DNA can be found at a location you have never been to. If DNA evidence is being used to narrow down a small group of suspects this is less of a problem than if you are searching a population scale group.
  - tathougies 9y ago
    > As a result your DNA can be found at a location you have never been to. Sure, but how could it possibly be linked to you?
    - microcolonel 9y ago
      Through the implication of samples collected from others, at locations you have never been to.
      - tathougies 9y ago
        How could that be linked to you? Suppose my DNA is on the person I brushed on the street today. How would a government agent be able to prove that whatever DNA they extract from his coat sleeve is mine? In order to do so, they would have to have a sample of my own DNA. It is unlikely a judge would sign a warrant for my DNA, given that I am not even suspected of any crime. You argue that a judge could issue a warrant on an innocent person. However, warrants are only issued if there is enough plausibility that a person could be guilty of a crime. At the point the warrant is issued, the government can now force you to give your DNA. But that could happen right now. Ultimately, in this case, the FBI barely exercised any of their authority. They didn't do any backroom dealings or use 'secret' laws. They just signed up to a genealogy website where people freely share their DNA information with the DNA sample voluntarily given to them by a rapist and murderer. The rapist has no right to any kind of privacy after giving his DNA away. Moreover, no one has any right to prevent a person who shares their genetic information from not disclosing it.
tathougies 9y ago
How could the government get their hands on your DNA, unless you've committed some crime in which your bodily fluids were involved? > However, what if your cousin uploads his? If you've given your DNA freely to the government by participating in a violent crime, then hopefully you will be caught and your cousin will be relieved that yet another criminal will face justice.
- jnwatson 9y ago
  In the case of the serial killer, they got a match through the suspect’s relatives’ DNA and filtering for age and location. Then they went through the suspect’s trash to get an item with his DNA on it.
- artificial 9y ago
  No crime needed. Here's some common means over the last 10 years: [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/dna-dragnet-in-some-cities-police-go-from-stop-and-frisk-to-stop-and-spit https://www.propublica.org/article/dna-dragnet-in-some-citie... [1] https://freedomoutpost.com/texas-cops-detaining-individuals-dna-samples/ https://freedomoutpost.com/texas-cops-detaining-individuals-... [2] http://www.wlky.com/article/accused-killer-challenging-traffic-stop-that-led-to-dna-sample/3747762 http://www.wlky.com/article/accused-killer-challenging-traff...
  - tathougies 9y ago
    Link [0]: voluntarily given samples. There is an issue with stop and frisk, but it has to do with warrantless search. This was an issue before this case, and will still be an issue. It is a separate issue. Nevertheless, in this rapists' case, no evidence was collected by warrantles searches. All evidence was freely submitted. Link [1]: Again, this has to do with forced seizures. These are actually wrong, independent of any DNA collected. Nevertheless, the government did not do any of that here. Link [2]: The police claim to have pulled the man over because of probable cause. They have a right to do this. They collected a cigar from his car. I'm not certain of the legality of this, tbh. But as to the legality of pulling over a car suspected of speeding? I'm pretty sure that's legal. Look, I find government overreach to be a major problem. But this is not a case of government overreach. There was no warrantless anything in this case. The relative of the rapist has no standing to sue the FBI in court for wrongful use of their information, because they freely provided it to a website. In all the cases you listed, the people (in my opinion) should have a right to have cases dismissed because this information was collected illegally.
thesz 9y ago
Suppose you have been in/next to significant number of places of serial... criminal act. And you sneezed at each place. Or, like me, you have a condition that make you shed excessive skin. Or both. Chances are your DNA would be at each site in a significant amount and you may be amongst several people linked to all cases. Chances are that you being in all these places is not a coincidence but you have a motive to be there - be it a work or something else. You can be tied to these places in some other way. If your cousin let this DNA DB shows his DNA and police can relate these, you are... you will have some interesting time with the justice system.

ocfx 9y ago

Then you go to jail where you belong if you're a serial killer and/or rapist from the 80s

toomuchtodo 9y ago

You have no recourse then.

downer68 9y ago
Or, more to the point, not one single person has any recourse, whether they're an evil serial killer/rapist or not. But, I'm trying to think about a situation where a secret identity might leave behind trace evidence that could be linked to a readily identifiable relative's samples, thus unmasking... say Spiderman. I guess, any situation involving trespassing or physical presence under other circumstances, where a person might leave behind a single hair follicle, including the root of the strand.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Definitely. As the number of sequenced individuals grows, it'll become that much harder to hide from a familial genetic search.

karlkatzke 9y ago

I know that we're pretty pro-privacy around here, but I'm gonna just go ahead and suggest that everyone not rape or kill someone.

dmm 9y ago
DNA evidence is often collected from fingerprints and it has been shown in many experiments that people can pick up and deposit DNA from other people. As a result your DNA can be found at a location you have never been to. If DNA evidence is being used to narrow down a small group of suspects this is less of a problem than if you are searching a population scale group.
- tathougies 9y ago
  > As a result your DNA can be found at a location you have never been to. Sure, but how could it possibly be linked to you?
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    Through the implication of samples collected from others, at locations you have never been to.
    - tathougies 9y ago
      How could that be linked to you? Suppose my DNA is on the person I brushed on the street today. How would a government agent be able to prove that whatever DNA they extract from his coat sleeve is mine? In order to do so, they would have to have a sample of my own DNA. It is unlikely a judge would sign a warrant for my DNA, given that I am not even suspected of any crime. You argue that a judge could issue a warrant on an innocent person. However, warrants are only issued if there is enough plausibility that a person could be guilty of a crime. At the point the warrant is issued, the government can now force you to give your DNA. But that could happen right now. Ultimately, in this case, the FBI barely exercised any of their authority. They didn't do any backroom dealings or use 'secret' laws. They just signed up to a genealogy website where people freely share their DNA information with the DNA sample voluntarily given to them by a rapist and murderer. The rapist has no right to any kind of privacy after giving his DNA away. Moreover, no one has any right to prevent a person who shares their genetic information from not disclosing it.

tathougies 9y ago

How could the government get their hands on your DNA, unless you've committed some crime in which your bodily fluids were involved? > However, what if your cousin uploads his? If you've given your DNA freely to the government by participating in a violent crime, then hopefully you will be caught and your cousin will be relieved that yet another criminal will face justice.

jnwatson 9y ago
In the case of the serial killer, they got a match through the suspect’s relatives’ DNA and filtering for age and location. Then they went through the suspect’s trash to get an item with his DNA on it.
artificial 9y ago
No crime needed. Here's some common means over the last 10 years: [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/dna-dragnet-in-some-cities-police-go-from-stop-and-frisk-to-stop-and-spit https://www.propublica.org/article/dna-dragnet-in-some-citie... [1] https://freedomoutpost.com/texas-cops-detaining-individuals-dna-samples/ https://freedomoutpost.com/texas-cops-detaining-individuals-... [2] http://www.wlky.com/article/accused-killer-challenging-traffic-stop-that-led-to-dna-sample/3747762 http://www.wlky.com/article/accused-killer-challenging-traff...
- tathougies 9y ago
  Link [0]: voluntarily given samples. There is an issue with stop and frisk, but it has to do with warrantless search. This was an issue before this case, and will still be an issue. It is a separate issue. Nevertheless, in this rapists' case, no evidence was collected by warrantles searches. All evidence was freely submitted. Link [1]: Again, this has to do with forced seizures. These are actually wrong, independent of any DNA collected. Nevertheless, the government did not do any of that here. Link [2]: The police claim to have pulled the man over because of probable cause. They have a right to do this. They collected a cigar from his car. I'm not certain of the legality of this, tbh. But as to the legality of pulling over a car suspected of speeding? I'm pretty sure that's legal. Look, I find government overreach to be a major problem. But this is not a case of government overreach. There was no warrantless anything in this case. The relative of the rapist has no standing to sue the FBI in court for wrongful use of their information, because they freely provided it to a website. In all the cases you listed, the people (in my opinion) should have a right to have cases dismissed because this information was collected illegally.

thesz 9y ago

Suppose you have been in/next to significant number of places of serial... criminal act. And you sneezed at each place. Or, like me, you have a condition that make you shed excessive skin. Or both. Chances are your DNA would be at each site in a significant amount and you may be amongst several people linked to all cases. Chances are that you being in all these places is not a coincidence but you have a motive to be there - be it a work or something else. You can be tied to these places in some other way. If your cousin let this DNA DB shows his DNA and police can relate these, you are... you will have some interesting time with the justice system.