10 ms·

I've talked to many otherwise perfectly rational folks who get worked up about avoiding MSG when it comes to Asian food — but still go out and buy liquid aminos

by thedz 8y ago

I've talked to many otherwise perfectly rational folks who get worked up about avoiding MSG when it comes to Asian food — but still go out and buy liquid aminos or eat foods that are caked in it.

bvinc 8y ago
I just checked the ingredients on my liquid aminos and it doesn't say msg. Their website says they don't add it, but there may be "very small amounts" that naturally occur from the soybeans. Please explain. P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational.
- aphextron 8y ago
  >P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational. Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional.
  - bvinc 8y ago
    > Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional. It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. All I'm advocating is a little bit of doubt. The human body is complex and not every person is the same and not every biological process is completely understood. We can make statements as a whole, like that most people that think they're sensitive to MSG aren't. But we shouldn't excitedly immediately dismiss a person claiming that something is happening to them.
    - tptacek 8y ago
      You might just as well raise concerns about adverse effects from dill, or alliums, or fava beans. In fact, all three of those are more likely to be associated with ill effects, because they're more allergenic. The reason MSG gets such harsh pushback is that the idea of "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" or "MSG sensitivity" has been rebutted pretty comprehensively both from an empirical perspective --- decades of studies have never established a link, which according to the narrative of MSG sensitivity should be very easy to do! --- and from a theoretical perspective. In fact, the theoretical basis for the safety of MSG is pretty plain just from the molecule, which makes you wonder how people could be spinning stories about the dangers of chemical MSG at all.
      - bvinc 8y ago
        I'm not trying to raise concerns. And actually, I agree with everything that you said. There is obviously a lot of misinformation and most of people's reactions and stories are factually incorrect and part of a fad. We can say that for sure because we've studied it. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't take that knowledge and then proceed to tell an individual, who you haven't studied, that they are wrong about what is happening to their bodies. People have weird and rare reactions to things all the time. You should have a healthy amount of doubt and realize that maybe you don't have complete knowledge of their bodies. Why is everyone here so certain? Who proved that no person on the planet has any reaction to MSG?
        drewmol 8y ago
        I agree with your sentimate. It's also important to remember that we continually learn new things about how previously considered inert components actually have effect when ingestested in combination with active ingredients. I love glutamate. When isolating them from other components and changing chemical structure, then dumping that in high volumes into other food (where the Chinese Food Syndrome part comes from), it does not seem unreasonable to me that it may cause irritation to some peoples digestive system. So I guess it's important to express that a whole is not only a sum of its parts, and both biology and chemistry are fluid evolving disciplines.
        tptacek 8y ago
        If it "may" cause digestive irritation, how come it never does when scientists do blinded studies of it?
        drewmol 8y ago
        The articles mentioned studies, but I can't give informed speculation, have not looked at any of the studies. Will assume the participants who reported irritation are a small enough a population to fall within the range of participants reporting irritation from placebo. So I'll opine that most of the people who report negative reaction probably have not sufficiently isolated MSG as the culprit, even if they are certain enough to convict. Side note: Latacora intreagues me, I think it's a good aproach to satisfy some security pain points. If things go well in the next few months, I may reach out to evaluate fit;-)
    - gilrain 8y ago
      I'm constantly worried about that teapot orbiting Mars that nobody can disprove. Imagine how much it must be worth! What color might it be? Endless fascination.
      - bvinc 8y ago
        You think the probability that someone on the planet has a sensitivity to a certain food/molecule is about the same as there being a teapot orbiting Mars? Everything a person consumes has a vast variety of effects in different people. We're discovering new reactions all the time. I'll tell you why I care. I'm coming from the perspective of someone that DOES have a rare and strange immune system reaction to a common food. I've seen doctor after doctor for years and no one can tell me what it is. I've tested it over and over and over and my doctors all agree with my assessment. But for some reason, I have to deal with a lot of people that tell me I'm wrong because read something on the internet about it being a fad. Why is everyone so damn certain they have complete knowledge of someone's digestive system and immune system?
        gilrain 8y ago
        My partner has IBS, so I'm also frustrated with unidentified food reactions/digestive issues. But I can't help her by ignoring the best tool for discerning reality we have, which remains scientific research. The results on MSG, glutamates, is very, very clear. "You think the probability that someone on the planet has a sensitivity to a certain food/molecule is about the same as there being a teapot orbiting Mars?" No, I KNOW people have food sensitivities. But not to MSG or its metabolites. I have as much evidence for the teapot as the MSG sensitivity, so I couldn't really guess which is more likely. I'd be happy to change my mind on either if presented with plausible research!
        nucleardog 8y ago
        I have as much evidence for the teapot as the MSG sensitivity, so I couldn't really guess which is more likely. I'd be happy to change my mind on either if presented with plausible research! I mean, you also have a whole ton of negative results regarding the plausibility of MSG sensitivity. Do you have any results showing that someone has looked into the possibility of a teapot floating around Mars and not found one? There's no clear mechanism for either to be true, but so far I think my money's on teapot.
    - lightedman 8y ago
      "It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG." Glutamate (and by extension MSG which simply has a sodium atom attached) is naturally produced by the body. the average human body has two kilograms of it stored at any given point and time in various tissues and organs. Simple logic would dictate that anyone with a sensitivity to it would be constantly reacting to it from the sheer amount their body produces and contains, wouldn't it? At two kilograms, anyone with a true sensitivity to it should be likely running a deathly reaction and we would have recorded medical evidence of that by now (over the 30-ish years or so it has been studied) if it were truly any sort of prevalent condition.
    - moogleii 8y ago
      Sure, and you could say the same about tomatoes. But, generally speaking, people don't have reactions to tomatoes. The oddity/absurdity is spending extraneous resources/time arguing whether being allergic to MSG is actually a thing, just as it would be to devote resources into whether being allergic to tomatoes is a thing (hell, it's borderline as absurd as studying if being allergic to salt is a thing, at which point you would just be dead). If you're allergic to tomatoes or salt, then it's a personal thing, not a general property of tomatoes or salt.
    - ajross 8y ago
      > It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. And you have an example of a food anywhere that meets that standard? Literally nothing meets this ideal of "safety", so I don't understand why you're OK with peanuts or shrimp when those are clearly shown to be death sentences for some people.
- cjlars 8y ago
  Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) is an amino acid bound to a sodium molecule to make it into a shelf stable powder. Much like table salt (NaCl) is a sodium molecule bound to a chloride molecule to achieve the same. When they contact the water in food they both dissolve into the component molecules. So really what you're talking about is glutamate which is a very widely occuring amino acid. It's "non-essential" which means that your body produces it. Almost all fermented foods contain it (including liquid aminos). Cheeses, meats, vegetables, etc contain it. It's very likely that you eat several times as much naturally occurring glutamate in your diet as you would if you used MSG in your cooking. Basically if someone says they are allergic to MSG, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain glutamate, is like someone saying they're allergic to table salt, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain sodium, which is not medically plausible. The flip side is that very high blood concentration of sodium can cause medical issues, and people worried about glutamate argue that a similar effect is going on when you eat MSG, but research so far indicates that at normal dietary levels, you're fine to sprinkle a little of either molecule on your food.
  - kazinator 8y ago
    > if someone says they are allergic to MSG If someone says they are allergic to MSG, they are simply abusing the word allergic. The reaction isn't allergic. It is not an immune response. Nobody in the thread above you used the word "allergic"; you made that up. Immune reactions are very different; they can be triggered by traces of the material. Nobody in their right mind claims they react to traces of MSG. The following paper studies the actual mechanisms how of MSG alters blood flows in brains. Well, rat brains: https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0224000 https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/...
  - galdosdi 8y ago
    Your chemistry is scarily bad, are you trolling? When elements combine into molecules the result often behaves very differently from the components. > Basically if someone says they are allergic to MSG, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain glutamate, is like someone saying they're allergic to table salt, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain sodium, which is not medically plausible. OK, so how come I can eat table salt but chlorine alone will kill me? Go back and complete that chem 100 course
- bsmith 8y ago
  MSG is, chemically, just a specific salt of glutamic acid. When dissolved (in food, or in the mouth) it forms free glutamate, which triggers the umami sensation on the tongue. Liquid aminos, cheeses, tomatoes, and many other foods are naturally high in free glutamates — and thus the savory, umami flavor that comes with it — even if MSG or other compounds aren't specifically added.
- 205guy 8y ago
  I agree with bvinc in this debate: those claiming to be scientific and saying MSG can't cause any reaction are rudely dismissing the real experiences of strangers. There are many reasons for the perceived MSG reactions: other additives in the MSG (like melamine milk in China), other foods at Chinese restaurants (and possible additives in those), all the way to psychosomatic and culture-bound syndromes [1]. There are a lot of "sensitivity" syndromes, and some are associated with genetic issues, some with toxicity, and others with mental health. And then there are questionable diseases [2]. Yes, the sufferers are sometimes vocal and unscientific. Those claiming to follow science shouldn't be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_questionable_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_questionable_diseases
  - indemnity 8y ago
    Agree all you want, your opinion is still wrong. If many double blind experiments are not enough to convince you, I suspect nothing will. How do you feel about vaccines?
    - 205guy 8y ago
      So because I called out people who misuse science to sneer at weak people, I must be an anti-vaxer. I don't doubt there are lots of studies showing no MSG effects (not that anyone bothered to link to them). I even believe them, just that there may be other factors at play. Plus they only studied MSG, I doubt they studied the people who claim to be affected by it. Did you miss the part where I brought up psychosomatic effects, culture-bound syndrome, mental illness, and questionable diseases? Do you want to contribute any hypotheses or just make fun of people?
sinemetu11 8y ago
Many people don't know that tomatoes, cheeses and other foods naturally have MSG. And: > FDA considers the addition of MSG to foods to be “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS). Although many people identify themselves as sensitive to MSG, in studies with such individuals given MSG or a placebo, scientists have not been able to consistently trigger reactions. [1] [1]: https://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/FoodAdditivesIngredients/ucm328728.htm https://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/FoodAd...
- eli 8y ago
  The placebo effect is really powerful
  - db48x 8y ago
    Not really. It only "works" for subjective measurements. As an asthma patient how well they can breathe after taking medicine, and you can get a placebo effect. Measure the volume of airflow in and out of their lungs and you don't.
wollstonecraft 8y ago
I've done a double blind experiment with myself, and msg reliably triggers migraines.
- sushid 8y ago
  But is that also the case when you consume food with lots of naturally occurring MSG? (e.g. chicken stock)
- tptacek 8y ago
  Scientists have been doing challenge studies with MSG for 4 decades, and no study that presented subjects with MSGs and detected any adverse reactions significantly different than placebo has ever reproduced. Even the (rebutted, non-reproducing) studies that showed adverse reactions to MSG (in the 80s and early 90s) showed headache as one of the symptoms not associated with MSG (tingling and numbness were more closely associated). I don't doubt you're able to give yourself a migraine, but I do doubt that you're controlling for MSG. This might be one of the best-studied food safety questions in the literature.
  - itbeho 8y ago
    I think it’s very likely that something with MSG on the label often includes things like anti-caking agents or nitrates that may actually be the culprit. I kept a food diary for a year and the common headache trigger seemed to be “MSG”. Changing my diet to avoid it eliminated the headaches. So it really doesn’t matter to me if someone on the internet says it can’t be MSG. The practical result in my case was close enough. I have sympathy for anyone that suffers from migraines.
    - kazinator 8y ago
      Anti-caking agents are used in powders other than MSG.
  - wollstonecraft 8y ago
    Ajinomoto vs Morton's salt as the control, milled to the same consistency in gelcaps. How did they find the subjects? Was it a general call for college students, or did they attempt to drill down to find rare sensitive individuals?

by thedz 8y ago

I've talked to many otherwise perfectly rational folks who get worked up about avoiding MSG when it comes to Asian food — but still go out and buy liquid aminos or eat foods that are caked in it.

bvinc 8y ago

I just checked the ingredients on my liquid aminos and it doesn't say msg. Their website says they don't add it, but there may be "very small amounts" that naturally occur from the soybeans. Please explain. P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational.

aphextron 8y ago
>P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational. Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional.
- bvinc 8y ago
  > Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional. It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. All I'm advocating is a little bit of doubt. The human body is complex and not every person is the same and not every biological process is completely understood. We can make statements as a whole, like that most people that think they're sensitive to MSG aren't. But we shouldn't excitedly immediately dismiss a person claiming that something is happening to them.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    You might just as well raise concerns about adverse effects from dill, or alliums, or fava beans. In fact, all three of those are more likely to be associated with ill effects, because they're more allergenic. The reason MSG gets such harsh pushback is that the idea of "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" or "MSG sensitivity" has been rebutted pretty comprehensively both from an empirical perspective --- decades of studies have never established a link, which according to the narrative of MSG sensitivity should be very easy to do! --- and from a theoretical perspective. In fact, the theoretical basis for the safety of MSG is pretty plain just from the molecule, which makes you wonder how people could be spinning stories about the dangers of chemical MSG at all.
    - bvinc 8y ago
      I'm not trying to raise concerns. And actually, I agree with everything that you said. There is obviously a lot of misinformation and most of people's reactions and stories are factually incorrect and part of a fad. We can say that for sure because we've studied it. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't take that knowledge and then proceed to tell an individual, who you haven't studied, that they are wrong about what is happening to their bodies. People have weird and rare reactions to things all the time. You should have a healthy amount of doubt and realize that maybe you don't have complete knowledge of their bodies. Why is everyone here so certain? Who proved that no person on the planet has any reaction to MSG?
      - drewmol 8y ago
        I agree with your sentimate. It's also important to remember that we continually learn new things about how previously considered inert components actually have effect when ingestested in combination with active ingredients. I love glutamate. When isolating them from other components and changing chemical structure, then dumping that in high volumes into other food (where the Chinese Food Syndrome part comes from), it does not seem unreasonable to me that it may cause irritation to some peoples digestive system. So I guess it's important to express that a whole is not only a sum of its parts, and both biology and chemistry are fluid evolving disciplines.
        tptacek 8y ago
        If it "may" cause digestive irritation, how come it never does when scientists do blinded studies of it?
        drewmol 8y ago
        The articles mentioned studies, but I can't give informed speculation, have not looked at any of the studies. Will assume the participants who reported irritation are a small enough a population to fall within the range of participants reporting irritation from placebo. So I'll opine that most of the people who report negative reaction probably have not sufficiently isolated MSG as the culprit, even if they are certain enough to convict. Side note: Latacora intreagues me, I think it's a good aproach to satisfy some security pain points. If things go well in the next few months, I may reach out to evaluate fit;-)
  - gilrain 8y ago
    I'm constantly worried about that teapot orbiting Mars that nobody can disprove. Imagine how much it must be worth! What color might it be? Endless fascination.
    - bvinc 8y ago
      You think the probability that someone on the planet has a sensitivity to a certain food/molecule is about the same as there being a teapot orbiting Mars? Everything a person consumes has a vast variety of effects in different people. We're discovering new reactions all the time. I'll tell you why I care. I'm coming from the perspective of someone that DOES have a rare and strange immune system reaction to a common food. I've seen doctor after doctor for years and no one can tell me what it is. I've tested it over and over and over and my doctors all agree with my assessment. But for some reason, I have to deal with a lot of people that tell me I'm wrong because read something on the internet about it being a fad. Why is everyone so damn certain they have complete knowledge of someone's digestive system and immune system?
      - gilrain 8y ago
        My partner has IBS, so I'm also frustrated with unidentified food reactions/digestive issues. But I can't help her by ignoring the best tool for discerning reality we have, which remains scientific research. The results on MSG, glutamates, is very, very clear. "You think the probability that someone on the planet has a sensitivity to a certain food/molecule is about the same as there being a teapot orbiting Mars?" No, I KNOW people have food sensitivities. But not to MSG or its metabolites. I have as much evidence for the teapot as the MSG sensitivity, so I couldn't really guess which is more likely. I'd be happy to change my mind on either if presented with plausible research!
        nucleardog 8y ago
        I have as much evidence for the teapot as the MSG sensitivity, so I couldn't really guess which is more likely. I'd be happy to change my mind on either if presented with plausible research! I mean, you also have a whole ton of negative results regarding the plausibility of MSG sensitivity. Do you have any results showing that someone has looked into the possibility of a teapot floating around Mars and not found one? There's no clear mechanism for either to be true, but so far I think my money's on teapot.
  - lightedman 8y ago
    "It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG." Glutamate (and by extension MSG which simply has a sodium atom attached) is naturally produced by the body. the average human body has two kilograms of it stored at any given point and time in various tissues and organs. Simple logic would dictate that anyone with a sensitivity to it would be constantly reacting to it from the sheer amount their body produces and contains, wouldn't it? At two kilograms, anyone with a true sensitivity to it should be likely running a deathly reaction and we would have recorded medical evidence of that by now (over the 30-ish years or so it has been studied) if it were truly any sort of prevalent condition.
  - moogleii 8y ago
    Sure, and you could say the same about tomatoes. But, generally speaking, people don't have reactions to tomatoes. The oddity/absurdity is spending extraneous resources/time arguing whether being allergic to MSG is actually a thing, just as it would be to devote resources into whether being allergic to tomatoes is a thing (hell, it's borderline as absurd as studying if being allergic to salt is a thing, at which point you would just be dead). If you're allergic to tomatoes or salt, then it's a personal thing, not a general property of tomatoes or salt.
  - ajross 8y ago
    > It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. And you have an example of a food anywhere that meets that standard? Literally nothing meets this ideal of "safety", so I don't understand why you're OK with peanuts or shrimp when those are clearly shown to be death sentences for some people.
cjlars 8y ago
Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) is an amino acid bound to a sodium molecule to make it into a shelf stable powder. Much like table salt (NaCl) is a sodium molecule bound to a chloride molecule to achieve the same. When they contact the water in food they both dissolve into the component molecules. So really what you're talking about is glutamate which is a very widely occuring amino acid. It's "non-essential" which means that your body produces it. Almost all fermented foods contain it (including liquid aminos). Cheeses, meats, vegetables, etc contain it. It's very likely that you eat several times as much naturally occurring glutamate in your diet as you would if you used MSG in your cooking. Basically if someone says they are allergic to MSG, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain glutamate, is like someone saying they're allergic to table salt, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain sodium, which is not medically plausible. The flip side is that very high blood concentration of sodium can cause medical issues, and people worried about glutamate argue that a similar effect is going on when you eat MSG, but research so far indicates that at normal dietary levels, you're fine to sprinkle a little of either molecule on your food.
- kazinator 8y ago
  > if someone says they are allergic to MSG If someone says they are allergic to MSG, they are simply abusing the word allergic. The reaction isn't allergic. It is not an immune response. Nobody in the thread above you used the word "allergic"; you made that up. Immune reactions are very different; they can be triggered by traces of the material. Nobody in their right mind claims they react to traces of MSG. The following paper studies the actual mechanisms how of MSG alters blood flows in brains. Well, rat brains: https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0224000 https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/...
- galdosdi 8y ago
  Your chemistry is scarily bad, are you trolling? When elements combine into molecules the result often behaves very differently from the components. > Basically if someone says they are allergic to MSG, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain glutamate, is like someone saying they're allergic to table salt, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain sodium, which is not medically plausible. OK, so how come I can eat table salt but chlorine alone will kill me? Go back and complete that chem 100 course
bsmith 8y ago
MSG is, chemically, just a specific salt of glutamic acid. When dissolved (in food, or in the mouth) it forms free glutamate, which triggers the umami sensation on the tongue. Liquid aminos, cheeses, tomatoes, and many other foods are naturally high in free glutamates — and thus the savory, umami flavor that comes with it — even if MSG or other compounds aren't specifically added.
205guy 8y ago
I agree with bvinc in this debate: those claiming to be scientific and saying MSG can't cause any reaction are rudely dismissing the real experiences of strangers. There are many reasons for the perceived MSG reactions: other additives in the MSG (like melamine milk in China), other foods at Chinese restaurants (and possible additives in those), all the way to psychosomatic and culture-bound syndromes [1]. There are a lot of "sensitivity" syndromes, and some are associated with genetic issues, some with toxicity, and others with mental health. And then there are questionable diseases [2]. Yes, the sufferers are sometimes vocal and unscientific. Those claiming to follow science shouldn't be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_questionable_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_questionable_diseases
- indemnity 8y ago
  Agree all you want, your opinion is still wrong. If many double blind experiments are not enough to convince you, I suspect nothing will. How do you feel about vaccines?
  - 205guy 8y ago
    So because I called out people who misuse science to sneer at weak people, I must be an anti-vaxer. I don't doubt there are lots of studies showing no MSG effects (not that anyone bothered to link to them). I even believe them, just that there may be other factors at play. Plus they only studied MSG, I doubt they studied the people who claim to be affected by it. Did you miss the part where I brought up psychosomatic effects, culture-bound syndrome, mental illness, and questionable diseases? Do you want to contribute any hypotheses or just make fun of people?

sinemetu11 8y ago

Many people don't know that tomatoes, cheeses and other foods naturally have MSG. And: > FDA considers the addition of MSG to foods to be “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS). Although many people identify themselves as sensitive to MSG, in studies with such individuals given MSG or a placebo, scientists have not been able to consistently trigger reactions. [1] [1]: https://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/FoodAdditivesIngredients/ucm328728.htm https://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/FoodAd...

eli 8y ago
The placebo effect is really powerful
- db48x 8y ago
  Not really. It only "works" for subjective measurements. As an asthma patient how well they can breathe after taking medicine, and you can get a placebo effect. Measure the volume of airflow in and out of their lungs and you don't.

wollstonecraft 8y ago

I've done a double blind experiment with myself, and msg reliably triggers migraines.

sushid 8y ago
But is that also the case when you consume food with lots of naturally occurring MSG? (e.g. chicken stock)
tptacek 8y ago
Scientists have been doing challenge studies with MSG for 4 decades, and no study that presented subjects with MSGs and detected any adverse reactions significantly different than placebo has ever reproduced. Even the (rebutted, non-reproducing) studies that showed adverse reactions to MSG (in the 80s and early 90s) showed headache as one of the symptoms not associated with MSG (tingling and numbness were more closely associated). I don't doubt you're able to give yourself a migraine, but I do doubt that you're controlling for MSG. This might be one of the best-studied food safety questions in the literature.
- itbeho 8y ago
  I think it’s very likely that something with MSG on the label often includes things like anti-caking agents or nitrates that may actually be the culprit. I kept a food diary for a year and the common headache trigger seemed to be “MSG”. Changing my diet to avoid it eliminated the headaches. So it really doesn’t matter to me if someone on the internet says it can’t be MSG. The practical result in my case was close enough. I have sympathy for anyone that suffers from migraines.
  - kazinator 8y ago
    Anti-caking agents are used in powders other than MSG.
- wollstonecraft 8y ago
  Ajinomoto vs Morton's salt as the control, milled to the same consistency in gelcaps. How did they find the subjects? Was it a general call for college students, or did they attempt to drill down to find rare sensitive individuals?